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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Not going to happen. Chimney bagged up & in store now until December.
     
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  2. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Yes I’m happy for my name to be used publicly, it’s the price of standing up for what I believe in and a price worth paying, the WSR is worth it.

    Ultimately I will stand and be judged against the WSR HR Policies if the Chairman will do the same. I know the outcome of this of course and perhaps that’s why my HR Complaint whilst being acknowledged has never been started as doing so has only one outcome for the person I complained about as the Policies are robust and comprehensive regarding what actions are acceptable and what are not.

    Why do I keep going ? Firstly I don’t think anybody should be bullied into silent and secondly many from within the WSR who feel the same keep asking me to keep standing for what I believe in, many fear losing their hobby and have decided their reaction is to not go public which I have to respect.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  3. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    There is no legal bar on doing so. However, one might suspect an EGM would be the result of such cras behaviour.

    Robin
     
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  4. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    Andy, as an outsider who clearly doesn't have any details of any individuals or your specific grievance, I would say that whilst I fully respect your resilience and professionalism on this forum, I fear that such situations from my experience, will inevitably gain you little traction, excusing my choice of words.
    Organisations aren't run as democracies and differences of opinion, right or wrong equate to 'my way or the highway' in respect to what the decision makers and holders of power want to do. You sound like you have lots to offer and as other's have already said, there are plenty of Heritage Railways in the UK that need all the support and experience they can muster. I hope things work for you and you don't allow any bitterness to sour your decisions or appetite to further your contribution to railway preservation in the future.
     
  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Does Freedom of Information apply to companies like the WSR PLC? If so, could any of us use that to get the PLC's side of the story and, in particular, why they have not applied their own HR policy?
     
  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    No, FOI is only for public authorities. I think Andy himself may be able to do something similar though under data protection rules where you have the right to see what information a company holds about you?
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No, Freedom of Information is specifically a duty on public bodies.

    (If you go back to the dim and distant days of the concerns over the possible sale of the freehold to the WSRA, FoI requests could be used to extract correspondence specifically because they were requests to Somerset County Council to divulge the information and correspondence they held).

    Tom
     
  8. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Just some perspective from a seed Andy planted a long time ago on the WSR. See the WSRA Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/WSRAssoc/ (You need to be a member on Facebook - sorry) for details of the "Spooktacular" .
    Now Andy may not have anticipated this particular outcome but I can trace the line all the way back to our joint involvement in community projects on or around the railway.
    The railway will never comment publically on what happened and that is a matter of policy but to suggest that the railway did not listen and did not learn is wrong.
    I've said before that we are on a long journey and having a fair to middling grasp of what it takes to drive organisational change, having spent a lot of my working life doing it, then I know full well the frustrations and the falling's out that can and will occur between colleagues as you all attempt to go on the same journey.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
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  9. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to make a distinction here between commercial trading companies and most voluntary organizations. I have run both and the big difference is that in a trading company the "boss" is either the owner or the representative of the owner or a Board of Directors, whilst the staff are chosen and employed for their particular skills. There are written contracts and law protecting both employers and employees rights. In a voluntary organization, and the WRS is almost entirely voluntary, the Directors/Management have to accept that, outside of safety issues, they have little real authority and have to work co-operatively with the volunteers and make the best of whatever skills are available. Failure to do so may well result in the loss of personnel and skills that are not easy to replace. "My way or the highway" leaders often prove damaging for their organizations, whether they are commercial, military or whatever, because they tend not to listen to good advice and take any questioning of tactics or policy as a personal affront, instead of addressing the point being made.
    It take time, patience, and courtesy to handle volunteers and sometimes it is a bit like herding cats but done right, you can achieve miracles, as most of the Heritage rail movement demonstrates.
     
  10. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't disagree with anything you say here DB and handling volunteer resources should require & lead to greater patience and people skills. Speaking personally, in my industry (Tech) I've definitely witnessed a degradation in the people-management skills used by those in more senior positions over time although I should add that I'm not directing this criticism at anyone in Heritage Railways. I'll allow those closer to the coal-face to make their own assertions on that point.
    However, from my experience these sort of situations are rarely if ever resolved with things going back to how they were before. The relationship between organisation or company and volunteer or employee should absolutely follow due laws and good practice however I've probably encountered more cases where this hasn't been the case than it has and variations of the 'truths' from both parties ends continuation of the relationship. I would add that I've not been the victim of this situation personally but I know plenty in industry that have attempted to take their employer to task and it's not got them what they deserved.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  11. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    You are 100% right of course except perhaps in the circumstance where you find that the ship is sinking fast under you. In that circumstance you may well need to bark orders at people for the greater good. There is not always the luxury of being able to stop and explain. Much the same in footplate work. The driver has absolute command. You don't have a nice debate (maybe some do - but I hope not) about the pro's and cons of an instruction, you follow it and maybe ask why later in the comfort of the mess room over a nice cup of tea.
     
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  12. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    I have this tee shirt, as a lot do. The best professional advice I had was just leave and get on with your life, which I did after 25 years of what I like to think were loyal service. Stuff happens and the best thing to do is to move on.
     
  13. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Well, we should see within the next year or so whether any sizeable grants come in - although they may be routed via the WSRA. Although grants aren't absolutely necessary for a healthy vintage railway, they would sure help.

    Noel
     
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  14. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    with the best will in the world if your core operations are loosing c£800k pa , and that is a leading line in the country then the heritage movement has some fairly fundamental challenges to address . the implication becomes that the business model is not fit for purpose
     
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  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Up to a point - but then you could say most bits of the leisure / heritage industry are in the same boat: how many museums or stately homes or the like genuinely survive on revenue income alone, without a healthy top up from what essentially amount to altruistic donation? The National Trust has run for over a hundred years, but doesn't survive on gate income, gift shops, cafes and Hollywood film jobs alone, important though all of those might be.

    (And for that matter - can you name a top flight football club that is genuinely financially viable from operating income alone? Most of them seem to have some kind of owner providing considerable subsidy).

    So perhaps the issue isn't to say that the business model isn't fit for purpose, but rather recognise that altruistic donation is a core part of the business model. From which you then conclude that the members - who will provide a good chunk of that revenue - and other donors need to be nurtured rather more effectively.

    Tom
     
  16. mvpeters

    mvpeters Member

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    100% !
     
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  17. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Just for clarity Grant's do not just "come in". Major grant applications are a 1 to 2 year process and require a huge amount of concentrated hard work. The conditions attached to some grants mean that they can only come via a charity.
    While I am certain that you could maintain a small, volunteer run, vintage railway from the firebox and secondary spend I suspect that is all but impossible for a heritage based tourist attraction like the WSR.
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Tom's paragraph throws up a couple of interesting by-the-bys (to me, at any rate!). The football club comparison is actually pretty valid. Look at the effect TV exposure has on the profile of footy clubs and has also, very noticeably, had on the NYMR.

    There's nowt new here, of course. Way back in the 1950s, even before the Bluebell got going, Talyllyn Railway passenger numbers received an almighty boost as a result of a TV programme ..... enough, in fact, to make possible restoration of old No.1 and also provided the spur to get much more passenger capacity sorted out.

    Looking to another of kickball's revenue streams, replica strips, again there's an analogy in custom models, not quite all of the market for which has gone to the holders of rights to TTTE. OK, so even models of Tornado or Flying Scotsman aren't going to fly off the shelves like this seasons' Man U (or whatever!) strips, but with imaginative joint marketing, such as that involving Hattons of Liverpool, I suspect there's scope for more.

    Broadcasting is changing and becoming more bespoke, as the interweb increasingly plays it's part. Many lines already have video channels, official or otherwise. Taking the F&WHR's informative "Moving Pictures" series (which I always watch out for) as a prime example, I have a question. Who exactly is the target audience? Enthusiasts? Tourists? It's a great video channel, but I do wonder whether it could be more effectively targeted and promoted. Looking at viewing figures for YouTube releases (Ever noticed those? They're on every video's decription) IMO, used effectively, there's a potentially colossal asset there.

    Any thoughts, folks?
     
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  19. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a single heritage railway in the country which actually manages to balance its income & expenditure purely on the basis of core operations ie just running trains?
     
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  20. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    The F&WHR would appear to have a very good PR department. Over the past few weeks they've had a couple of appearances on the new "Steam Train Britain" series and a slot on "Country File".

    Some might say that their double Fairlies give them an unfair advantage. :D
     
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