Access all areas - should the public be allowed behind the scenes?

Such access is generally possible on Gala days when productive work is stopped and designated routes for visitors can be defined & marked. Active workshops present a range of hazards to those not used to such environments and work such as welding, riveting or operating machine tools cannot simply be stopped to accommodate visitors. The message has to be - come when these facilities are open such as the WSR & SVR galas or on SVR Open House Weekend.

 

I do absolutely appreciate and respect the H&S aspects. On this particular occasion I was informed that someone would have shown me around had it not been an operational day (even though the next working was some time away)- when I wouldn't then have been able to arrive by train and support the railway. I'm not proposing any railway spend precious funds trying to go overboard here but a few open doors and some hazard tape can be better than a 'we're not open, nothing to see here' attitude.

 

I can't remember where, but I'm sure I've been to some places where the set up is such that it is easy to open or block safe access so if welding or the like is going on you aren't allowed in at all but if slightly more gentle activities are going on then you can access a viewing area. A happy compromise for all?

 

But the comment can be interpreted as supporting the approach of WSR and/or SVR, and therefore influence how people spend their money.

I, and I suspect most on here, are aware that there are safety, security and practical implications to allowing visitors round workshops and to see what's going on - and that these constraints have become more pronounced over time. But it seems odd that operations that rely on volunteers and therefore enthusiasm, and have a significant part of their origins in the wave of railway enthusiasm of the 1950s and 60s, would not want to find ways to welcome that enthusiasm as a way to channel it. It might just be by leaving doors open for a workshop or shed (as I've seen at Sheffield Park and Loughborough); it might be providing a safe viewing gallery (as at Grosmont), or it might go the whole hog as Bluebell and SVR have done in creating stores cum museums that people can visit.

It seems to me that often the key ingredients in these discussions is willpower, and the key consideration is whether to harness or ignore casual visitors' goodwill.

 

Well surely the question must then be, how can the NYMR, MHR, Bluebell etc provide such facilities?

Keith

 

I am not involved with the west Somerset railway, and read this thread purely for amusement.

Access to sheds (of which I spend a lot of time in doing loud, heavy work).

It is all well and good saying "just open a door, and put some tape up."

But have you seen what most people do at railways? They walk all over the place, the rules dont apply to them because they were just trying to get a photo, or just getting a better view, or they knew they shouldn't be there but they used to fire out of some miserable shed in 19dot so they know enough to keep themselves safe.

Most railway workshops are cold, open a door and work on locos gets even harder.

 

I think the other question individual build & restoration teams need to ask themselves is, if we're attending multiple shows & galas raising valuable funding for said new build or restoration, how can I expect any interested party to contribute if they then can't get to see where their money is being spent (should they want to and should the periodic online blog not suffice) until 20 years later when the finished article is pulled out of a shed somewhere?

 

There is quite a difference between public access to active, productive workshops manned by folk being paid to get on with the job and storage/museum type buildings where little or no work is undertaken and volunteers may be available to show people round. Even with a public viewing platform operations such as riveting (which is incredibly noisy) and welding (which causes eye damage if viewed) are just two obvious hazards, the first of which cannot be "designed out". Williton, Minehead, Bridgnorth and others are not museums or storage shed but they are serious workshops.

 

Not to mention the issue of theft if the public are allowed free rein (Loughborough). Certain sheds/workshops have been set up with proper viewing areas (Wansford, Grosmont) but the vast majority aren't.

 

what might be the answer then? Any ideas other than 'sorry we're closed and it's cold in here'?
I don't think you should judge that some of those visiting can be from the same working environment than the one being operated and may know more than being assumed.

 

Now you are getting extreme. Nobody has suggested that there should be unfettered access to Tyseley Loco Works where many projects are in progress. Folk get their chance on the twice yearly Open Weekends in a similar way to the Gala access on the heritage lines mentioned previously. Why are heritage line workshops viewed differently?

 

The answer is easy and has already been mentioned but for clarity folk can visit on the days when access IS made available. This is published in the list of open attractions at each Gala event.

 

I'm not suggesting that all heritage locations are alike 1472 and yes many will open their doors where they can.
What I'm seeing here is a classic example where the shutters come down and opportunities are not looked for, some of which could have commercial benefits given that the question here was how could money be kept on-the-railway rather than having visitors with nothing much to do but go elsewhere?

The reasons for saying no, it's too difficult & we can't change :

• Enthusiasts don't have a god-given right to see what they may have contributed to at some point
• It's cold in the sheds
• It's dangerous and enthusiasts can't be trusted not to wander where they shouldn't go
• They could decide to steal stuff
• We don't have time and resources to show you round

Now give me some positives for saying yes we might want to think differently :

• We could add a premium to visiting excursions for viewing areas of the workshops
• We could align our opening days to when excursions are scheduled to run to the railway

now try for some more......

 

You are right, this comes back to the culture which I’ve posted on before. Any leisure attraction which looks to gain money (from all avenues) to survive from the ‘public’ (known to Funders as “the Community”) can either be Inclusive or Exclusive in their thinking. The question is the same, is the Culture set in place by any one railway working for some railways better than others?

As for how to let people see what any railway is doing safely which suits all concerned, it’s just a set of issues to overcome nothing more. It appears the railway heritage industry can overcome massive problems and build a new locomotive and whole railways with next to no resources but it struggles with being an industry who lets people be a part of it or even see what’s going on.

A few pages back a well known poster here stated that TV shows for railways were a waste of time and negative (my paraphrase) but I’ve watched Train Truckers and Steam Train Britain and I think they are fantastic PR and a great behind the scenes look, these will no-doubt attract people to the railways concerned as they can see they can volunteer if they wish. Again just another open door instead of a closed one!!!!

 

Andy, thanks for your response and I do agree. I don't wish to upset anyone involved in Heritage Railways and each is different and each has it's specific challenges to overcome.

Until my recent retirement, I was Head of Business Change at a large global technology company and what I see here is commonplace and not specific to our preserved railways. An inability to change, adjust and adapt to market forces can become the downfall of any company and some of our Heritage Railways that started as 'clubs' of like minded people and now operate as corporations where customer service leverage is all important need marketeers more than ever.

I would say to anyone who volunteers in any workshops on any preserved railway, that they also have responsibilities for customer service & business continuity beyond the shutters they may have pulled down to keep warm. I can't tell which heritage railway Michaelh is part of but needless to say, training and commercial education could be important for that railway too.

 

Andy

Finding all the reasons to say no isn’t confined to Heritage Railways!

Once you have a customer/visitor you should do your best to up-sell, cross-sell re-sell, whatever, get their money,sure, but give them plenty of reasons to come back. The front end people on the WSR have the skills and attitude to do it.

 

The RPSI have managed to create just such a facility, so you are mistaken that issues cannot be designed out. Visitors enter the main museum/workshop building on the ground floor and proceed through a few enclosed rooms with displays, they can then choose to go through a door into the running shed where there are usually 3/4 locos on display. Coming back into one of the display rooms, they can then proceed upstairs (lift available for those who need it) which brings the visitor to another display area and then into the wheeldrop area where they can look down on any work in progress. Walking around the wheeldrop gallery (lots more displays on the walls) the visitor can proceed to a large viewing window which overlooks the main workshop. Any noise from riveting etc is reduced to an acceptable level because of the window and wall separating the workshop from the visitor. Welding takes place behind moveable screens.

The doors don't have to be open. Riveting and welding can still happen. It just takes a bit of imagination as to how the visitor can be accommodated. If every railway puts up barriers to interested visitors and says 'you can only visit twice a year when we say so', I don't think loco/carriage/extension appeals will be very popular with the public, and as Andy says above, external funders will be increasingly looking for engagement with the public.

Keith

 

From this response it occurs to me that access could possibly have been organised had the tour operator (UK Railtours) thought to request it. The workshop clearly cannot cater for a large interested visiting party with no prior warning, but may well have been willing to do so had it been requested in advance as part of the tour itinerary.

Peter

 

This is something honest people rarely think about. The Middleton Railways workshops is fairly secure; it has to be. We have had just one break in (perhaps I shouldn't tempt fate by saying that!) and that targeted a weak spot which the police considered could only be identified by someone who had had a chance to have a good look inside. Fortunately, targeting the weak spot meant they wee in good view of the road and they were spotted in the act. The culprits weren't apprehended, running off when the police arrived, but we did get everything back. Prior to this we happily showed people around but since then we have introduced a simple rule that volunteers can only show people around that they know personally.

The NYMR has also been targeted in the past by people who had 'cased' the site. They are a bit more security conscious these days but, still allow visitor access. There is the already mentioned viewing gallery for the workshops and outside viewing area for the yard and they do conducted tours of the workshops site on certain days, for which there is a small charge.

 

I can only assume though Peter that SVR knew that a UKR excursion was visiting the railway on that day since an additional working was laid on with Taw Valley on the front. More joined-up thinking perhaps to align open days with large-scale visits?