60009

Definitely involved No.9. There are photos of the tender looking in a similar state.

 

Mr Cameron deserves some good luck with No9 for Christmas, feel desperately sorry for him.

Would RAIB become involved in something like this???

 

First thought is that someone forgot to couple up

 

It will be reportable but RAIB will generally only investigate if they think that there are lessons to be learned. Stuart (5801 of this parish) can probably give a better opinion.

 

Even if someone forgot to couple up, I don't think this should have happened. AFAIK there are no connectors on Pullman gangways that could be left connected, either. Has something somehow become jammed or displaced to cause this to happen? Pure speculation on my behalf. It will be interesting to hear the reason.
Edit: Just realised on having a closer look that it is not a Pullman gangway on the coach/van. Therein is probably the answer.

 

Apparently there are clips that secure the Stove R to the tender corridor connection and someone forgot to disconnect them before the loco moved forward to take water.

 

Case closed. An unfortunate incident that someone is unlikely to forget in a hurry.

 

I'm surprised that they bothered to connect the gangways in the first place - not like they were going to change crews north of York.
Ray.

 

Lucky none of the many bystanders were struck by any debris.

 

Speaking from personal experience with a British Standard gangway connected to a Pullman gangway many years ago, I’d suggest we leave that particular subject exactly where it is. As Steve says, an unfortunate incident that someone is unlikely to forget in a hurry.

 

I’ve had a carriage where the clips weren’t connected, and going round a particular combination of curves the gangway clip worked its way inside the Pullman gangway of the coach next to it and sheared the securing bolt of the clip. It became standard practice there to connect the clips unless it was the briefest of shunt moves.

 

I've coupled and uncoupled an A4 corridor tender a good many times but always to pullman gangwayed stock so the act of unclipping a gangway would not be part of my routine and have to be specifically noted. In fact, I can't think of an occasion where I have been involved with coupling British Standard gangwayed coaching stock. I suspect that ELR footplate crew would be similarly inexperienced as they generally use Mk.1 stock.

 

But why was the corridor connection coupled up ? as I cant see what use there would have been?
The shunter, or fireman would have had to have gone underneath to uncouple as the LMS vehicle does not appear to have a buckeye so a screw link would have been used would they have know the gangway was clipped?

 

Really no point in speculating further, no doubt we will hear in due course. I just feel sorry for whoever was responsible, we all make mistakes and he must be feeling a bit sick now.

 

Without doubt, I have only ever used the buck eye when coupling an A4 up tender end, , except for one time when the Buckeye refused to lock then I had to use the emergency coupling

 

Rumpole's post below helpfully explains why it may have been desirable to couple the gangways or alternatively how they may have become connected accidentally.
PS screw link coupling not 3-link, I doubt you'd be allowed a plain 3-link coupling in a passenger train.

 

Maybe the connection was not coupled up - could the clip have slipped, possible when the loco eased up on the coupling, and engaged with the A4 without anyone realising? It would seem that it was only the fireman's side clip that was joined and not the one on the driver's (platform) side. Could well be that no ones to blame here

Peter

 

Should there have been any movement of any vehicle involved before an investigation has been carried out by at least the ELR Management?

 

Ramsbottom, 22/12/2019

 

If you watch the video of the incident you will see that the vehicles were quite separate at the point immediately after the incident happened.