West Somerset Railway General Discussion

That's a very easy thing to say but much harder to do on a line like the WSR, where both trains and passengers start from both ends of the line. I know relatively little about the WSR operations but I think its similar to the NYMR, which I do know. Priority is, of course, to get the passengers back to their starting point in reasonable time. However, if you terminate a train short of its destination to get back on time, you deprive those further on the line of their expected train so that becomes self-defeating. If you cancel (say) a late running 13.00 service and make it the advertised 14.00 instead that sort of gets the timetable back on track as far as the visitor is concerned but plays havoc with where stock will end up at the end of the day, not to mention your crews. It can then involve early morning ecs's or light engine moves to put things in the right position for the next day. It can also lead to significant overcrowding if you trains are relatively full. The NYMR generally finds it less disruptive to run all the advertised trains where it can, even when they are an hour late, priority being given to those running through to or from Whitby. If trains are seriously late it is down to taxis and even coaches to get people back in reasonable time but it isn't easy finding sufficient coaches for perhaps four hundred passengers.
It is generally possible to make up a small amount of time at the terminal points when running round. A good (NYMR) crew can do this in 10 minutes against the 20 allowed and, on a short line, this can help a lot. However, on long lines like the WSR it is less effective because the terminal time is proportionately less of the overall time. Any time saving can also be nullified by having to cross other trains on the journey. It's no use pulling back 10 minutes if you are then going to wait for the same time at the next passing place. Making up time on the journey is much harder (if you stay legal) as trains are usually timed at close to the maximum speed on many lines.
The only real answer is to run to time but that is much easier said than done. The NYMR analyses all delays to trains of more than 10 minutes and endeavours to improve on this KPI. I don't think I am posting sensitive information by showing the 2019 analysis here fo over 4000 trains run.
Loco failure/defects/repairs 28
Priming 1
On-board equipment - GSMR, TPWS, AWS 3
Coaling/Watering 2
Wheel slip/rail adhesion 3
ETB failure 2
Coach failure/defect 3
Ground frame/token machine/points Network Rail 3
Train crew 6
Network Rail speed restrictions 1
Signal failure NYMR 1
Late running Northern services 1
Track 2
Trees on line 1
Traction & Rolling Stock personnel 1
Operational incident 2
Derailment 1
Depot congestion: late off depot 1
Medical emergency 1
External special event 1
Unexplained time loss 4
Diesel substitution 15

I'm sure (I hope!) the WSR does similar analysis.

 

Firstly, thank you for such a detailed analasys.

Clearly from this it might be possible to look at what happened to cause the delay and could it have been prevented.

More importantly however it seems to me especially from looking at the reports of what happened on the WSR, what is needed is not 'Why did it go wrong' - although it seems that at least one of the causes was quite avoidable - filling loco's with gravel not coal, but what did we do to get it sorted. It sounds as though there may have been too much 'Ploughing merrily on' and not enough 'Get that 33 here asap'

I would certainly suggest that there needs to be a formal investigation into delays of - say over 30 mins to ensure that there is some accountability and a clear message to all involved as to what is required when things dont work out. Whatever else at least when I visited on Saturday it seems as though action was taken to assist the failed train reasonably rapidly and we were kept well informed.

 

Or, as we were still saying when I retired from DB, 'We run to a timetable, the Western to a calendar'. It must be in the DNA.
Pat

 

That's not necessarily as easy as it sounds. I don't know what arrangements the WSR have for spare crews, but "just fire up a diesel" means having a diesel-qualified driver available, and in the right location for where the diesel is stored. Then you have to prepare it which isn't instantaneous, then allow it a path (when there may well be other trains in progress between stations that have to arrive first), then traverse the line to where it is needed ... If your spare diesel is at Williton and your spare driver happens to be at Minehead, you could be looking at 30 minutes to drive them by road to Williton, then easily 30 minutes to prepare the loco and await a path, then maybe up to another 45 minutes for it to reach one end of the line or the other. A single loco will take up paths needed by other trains, causing them delays ... In the circumstances, soldiering on with a loco that is steaming badly and gradually losing time might still be quicker.

"Formal" is a slightly odd word (it implies to me an external investigation). I'm sure the WSR already has processes in place both to monitor daily operational performance and to modify procedures if necessary. What is obvious - and @Steve's list makes it very clear if you look in detail at the causes of lateness listed - is that punctuality is a "whole railway" effort. Every person - from a late booking on crew not having their engine prepared in time to a porter not properly ensuring doors are shut before departure to a carriage fitter not noticing a worn vacuum bag on a carriage - has the potential to generate a delay.

Tom

 

I certainly dont disagree but from what @lil Bear said it sounded rather like a train being taken out with an entirely unfit locomotive resulting in massive disruption

 

I appreciate the WSR (and NYMR etc) have more complexities due to the nature of their lines - longer routes, less passing places, sidings etc. But it does't take away from the fact that when difficult decisions need to be taken they need to be done so decisively, not just plough on as per planned in a valiant but futile effort to run everything as booked. The same issues had been experienced the day before with 7752 - for which a diesel was sent to rescue. On a busier timetable, there was opportunities at a couple of occasions to take action and recover from the issues. There was even a point that 7828 was only 10 minutes late following the cancellation of her run to Norton. Nothing was done though, the decision was taken to carry on regardless and the end result was getting to WN 75 minutes late, delaying every other train along the line by over an hour also. In the end from reports elsewhere 7828 eventually got back to Minehead 3 hours late herself. Is that good enough? Is that value for money to Joe Public spending over £100 on said attraction for a day out?

I have no axe to grind against WSR, I'm not interested in the ongoing politics, I simply visited for a winter's day out behind several steam trains. My original post was in reply to Stephen who commented on the positive efforts of one member of staff, which sadly we failed to experience despite the issues. I'm not looking for anything from WSR people, nor anyone else. Just posting my review (as others have done so) of what was a bad day at the office for WSR, and hoping lessons are learned by those that need to do so.

 

Pretty much. 7828 DH from BL - MD with 9351, and struggled to steam. She then ran MD - BL solo, but struggled with the relief crew leaving the cushons to go and assist the morning crew up front to get 7828 to BL.

She was then booked to run BL - MD one final trip, but struggled considerably. Her trip to Norton was cancelled to give the crew a chance to clean the fire on shed. She was late leaving BL, and there were 4x stops for blow ups before admitting defeat at WN. All this after 7752 suffered from the exact same issues the day before, difference being in that situation diesel assistance was called for the Pannier. 7828 in the end was forced to wait for the 7F to complete her booked duty before being rescued by that at the end of the day.

A long day for the respective afternoon crews, who did their best. But the procedure for minimising delay didn't work on this day for whatever reason, and communication to punters onboard was considerably lacking.

 

At my home railway we have the "Operations Officer" Duty, who has overall charge of the day's activities - covering both commercial and operations. So whatever decision is made by the day's Ops Officer is implemented as instructed. Not always the popular decision has been made during times alterations to the services has been required, but end of the day you're not there to make the popular choice.

 

I gather that the agreement with the DEPG is that there is a diesel capable of being 'cold started' ie a 33 on standby with someone available to drive it whenever public trains are running

 

I have no axe to grind against WSR, I'm not interested in the ongoing politics, I simply visited for a winter's day out behind several steam trains. My original post was in reply to Stephen who commented on the positive efforts of one member of staff, which sadly we failed to experience despite the issues. I'm not looking for anything from WSR people, nor anyone else. Just posting my review (as others have done so) of what was a bad day at the office for WSR, and hoping lessons are learned by those that need to do so.[/QUOTE]

Whilst we sat at WN awaiting the late running Manor, my companion (who had never been on a heritage railway before) was enthusing on what a splendid time he was having. The coach, when the lights were on contained a party of French visitors, mums and dads and kids, all it seemed having a grand old time.

The only grumpy person was me.

There was a distinct lack of volunteers around on Sunday.

Washford station buildings including toilets were shut, S&D museum and Midford box was shut also. This was disappointing because I wanted to explain to my friend single line token working.
The same seemed to be happening at Williton, the Swindon shed was shut and no one was around, so therefore I doubt that anyone was available to fire up Thunderbird 33.

Anyway, I think us railwaymen and operational types want things done right and get miffed when we feel we could be doing better, that's even without knowing all the facts.

 

On a happier note than the last postings! It is good to see on the webcam that the BL station cat is enjoying the New Year. We hope that there will be someone to feed her during the long "train free" spell.

 

I understand that the cat actually belongs to a local house. There is someone in the WSRA office on platform 1 most days.

 

A few pictures from the WSF on Sunday https://www.flickr.com/photos/79185888@N04/49305491182/in/dateposted-public/

 

superb pictures

 

Yes, that sort of thing can be a real sod.

 

I think it worth acknowledging the enormous effort put in by staff and volunteers on all heritage railways to run the Santa Specials every December. The staffing requirements to operate all the extra services, plus manning Santa’s grotto and refreshments etc deserves praise. Not surprising to me that some of the usual, but non-essential, extras (e.g. S&D museum and Midford box) may not be available.

 

Quite so but the range of attractions is one thing visitors pay their money for. Last year it was decided, reluctantly, that the railway museum I assist with needed to close so the sizeable high grade clock could have its movement taken away for cleaning and servicing by a specialist. His skills are rare these days. Thankfully, closure has not been necessary during this winter's Santa Special season for any reason.

 

Some places do appear to be burning "sewage sludge".

 

I've heard Welsh coal being referred to in many ways but this is a first.

 

Who's bright idea was it to coal from a non concreated base.
If your gonna coal down the triangle , why was it not in dumpy bags, save chucking a ton of mud in the tender with your coal loading from the floor,