Steam Locomotive Restoration of the Decade 2010-2019

Nice!

 

That's the one.

 

Very fair - and as possibly one of those who caused the ripples, I wish to reemphasise my original point. I don't have a problem with "inauthentic" liveries per se, but with attempts to justify them on grounds of historical accuracy when they are no such thing.

 

I recall having one of those too! I must have been about three because I got a Hornby Dublo set for Christmas when I was four. I got that after badgering my parents for months, as I was so unimpressed by the O gauge model's(?) lack of realism.

I was very pleased with the Hornby 2-6-4T though. In fact, I've still got it, still in running order!

 

A circular livery debate yet again! Everyone involved in restoring, rebuilding call it what you like should asked themselves this question. What are we trying to achieve? One aspect must be recreating a travel experience from a bygone age otherwise what’s the point of restoring obsolescent machinery to working order? Having accepted that then you must also accept that there is an educational element to what you are doing. Joe Public will not know that any locomotive had been presented correctly or not but, I’m sure would prefer to learn that freight engines were generally black and the majority of locos didn’t carry names etc. Heritage railways and a mainline steam special are akin to working museums.
Although it was in a modelling context, the railway historian, JN Maskelyne stated that anyone producing an inaccurate model for exhibition to the public was doing a great disservice to future generations who may copy it in the erroneous belief that it was correct. The same applies to 12 in/ ft scale and not just in terms of paint on engines, stations are normally correct to a period as far as possible but there is usually nothing to tell the public that it’s a representation of the 40s/50s/60s or whatever. This type of skewing of history has already occurred on this thread, 45690 is in a perfectly accurate livery for a few Jubilees in the 1948/52 period. To be 100% accurate for that particular loco it should have BRITISH RAILWAYS in full on the tender , ironically it’s current style is totally accurate for Galatea, which now has an authentic livery but an inaccurate name and number of a short firebox 5XP.
Having said that and getting back on thread, the best restoration of recent years has got to be 35018.

 

Mmm. Whilst I respect your comments and your undoubted contribution to railway preservation (plus the fact you are a TV star) I think you are considerably younger than me and forget that back in the 1970s/80s steam was about to disappear from the mainline, so what do you make of this?
An authentic looking King on a motley collection of rolling stock.
Just be thankful that, against the odds, a significant number of locos are wandering around the Network giving a lot of pleasure to many people even if they are not ‘perfect’ to the railway enthusiast perfectionist. ( Although I sometimes wonder if there is really such an animal).

 

Better things to be worried about then a shade of rust protection, just be thankfull someone and their group spent upwards of 5-40 years restoring something we can all enjoy.

its authentic anyway if you think about it, all these locos get used in service.....

 

I'd have prefer her to be in LMS livery, but frankly I was just delighted to see her at all!
I quite liked the conceit of the BR red livery, it was fun.
Maybe they should have had a disclaimer on the side that it was just a bit of fun?
Although then again, anyone seeing it trundling tender first through East Anglia may have worked out that is wasn't an attempt at historical re-enactment...
Superb restoration. Three cheers for all involved.

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I think this is probably the view of most people who would rather we have more authentic liveries, but then along comes the "get a life who cares" brigade and those who were simply stated a preference feel forced to justify their views and end up doubling down, just to, in effect, defend their right to hold their opinion. Like this post:

Was it really helpful, did it add to the conversation, was it very moderator-y? I note that @RalphW managed to find the time to write his snide remark to @S.A.C. Martin, but not to @Jamessquared who made the original point Simon was merely agreeing with.

 

It’s a strange one isn’t it? Jamessquared (Tom) and I have both worked for/volunteered at the Bluebell and have ties there.

Tom made the original comment regarding Bluebell and I agreed with him. I think there is a lot of merit in what Tom says and have much time for him.

In recent years great efforts have been taken at the Bluebell to turn out locos and rolling stock in more authentic combinations and liveries.

When you consider the excellence of the rolling stock being turned out, it makes sense to have the conversation about the locomotives too.

FWIW I had no idea that Fenchurch wasn’t in an accurate livery - I’ve been googling in rare quiet moments today - fascinated by the possibilities.

Research, history, photographs, and hopefully recreating something that disappeared a long time ago. That’s what I love about railway preservation. That’s what attracts me to it. Those who do it well do a good job of it.

On a side note - it it wasn’t clear already - nobody is decrying the efforts of those who keep steam on the mainline. It’s a tough job, with many obstacles. Those who do it off their own bat and with their own money have my admiration and support.

The title of the thread was “best restoration of the last decade”, however. Maybe now is the time where someone actually clarifies what they mean by “restoration” - because so far as it goes, we clearly all have different red lines on what is “restoration”, “preservation” and perhaps “overhauling”.

I think it’s entirely healthy to have a debate on this sort of thing. How can we know what others think in the wider world without open discussion?

Perhaps the real trick here is to recognise that there’s different approaches, different red lines, and different points of view.

But just to play devils advocate - how can we be in railway preservation if we are not looking at preserving the past, but creating a future? I’m all for that, by the way, I just wonder if by creating something which didn’t happen we risk losing the historical truth in the process.

Preservation, restoration...to me it’s in the detail.

That’s one mans view. Others are available, as always.

 

I was stood next to one of those motley Pullmans today as it happens (Mona, which I think is the second one in - happy to be corrected!), and I was struck by the fact that underneath the bits which were still blue, some of the original Pullman livery could be seen underneath.

You could see every brush stroke. Where old transfers had been applied. You could look into the carriage and see where craftsmen had worked on flooring, panelling, and where maintenance staff and operational staff had made modifications to the frames and bogies for various reasons. Not exactly a time capsule - but close.

Now we can see a variety of Pullman vehicles around the country. Some are authentic and wear the liveries authentically. There are some vehicles - like our good old Stove R down the Bluebell! - that wear Pullman livery spuriously.

To me it looks odd and it never sits well with me.

However no one can deny it looks smart and it serves a purpose - working in a train that helps fund the Bluebells activities.

There’s a balance, I accept, to these things.

That’s why when something truly remarkable happens - like a Steam Railmotor and trailer in matching livery, which required painstaking research and hard work to make it all match - we sit up and take notice.

 

Another good reason to avoid inaccurate liveries, you paint it over, then several decades later, someone in a workshop rubbing down the paintwork "discovers" an "original" paint job, history is rewritten!

 

Erm, I think probably people can tell the difference between early 2000s and early 1950s...
If someone mistakes a photo, or a paint layer, as being the latter not the former, it must be because of a very superficial look.
This is becoming tedious, but you could make the same argument about lots of other things: will people find photos of 2019 and then claim rebuilt Merchant Navies ran under the wires on the WCML? Or that A3s routinely hauled trains of Mark 2s? Or that in pre grouping days small country stations had espresso machines?
I think we need to agree to differ. Some of us don't mind some fun being had with liveries which don't have a historic basis with that loco, or class. Others do. We have to get along nevertheless.
The vast majority of steam locos today are in "authentic" liveries, and the few which aren't are so at their owners prerogative, and still give many of us much pleasure.

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Not so! We've already had one correspondent, possibly not on Nat Pres, I can't remember where but it was a railway based forum, expressing surprise to discover that 5XPs in BR days were never painted red. The myth has already begun.

 

Deleted.

 

Morning Noel, and my apologies for missing your post.

I refer you to the heading of the thread. If we’re comparing restorations, there will be those which fit the bill of “restoration” perfectly and those that don’t. Some may be better served as being described “overhauled” - and all of that is ok!

I think it would be remiss of us as a movement though to place a working locomotive in a fictional livery higher in this category than one which is in an accurate livery.

What does restoration entail? Returning an object as close as possible to the condition it once had.

Nobody is decrying the practical and very necessary adjustments for mainline running (TPWS, etc) but we are discussing restoration in the context of railway preservation.

If the topic had been about simple operational requirements or the much more involved heavy engineering of putting a loco back into steam, would there be any argument?

Yet we shy away from the overall aesthetics of a steam locomotive when challenged to ask the question - effectively - which is the best? Who are we recognising?

And FWIW, I’d be quite happy to hand medals out to everyone regardless of the quality just for taking part and for trying.

I suspect some might feel miffed that their efforts to the nth degree to get it right have been overlooked - is that fair?

In the relatively minor rush to all get a dig in at me yesterday, a few posters missed the point of the thread and that I wasn’t the perpetrator of the views involved. Agreeing with someone who disagrees with you isn’t a shooting offence yet.

...is it?

 

Okay,

After reading all the livery stuff, here's a nomination from NSW.

3526. Overhaul was quite extensive, including constructing a new tender, repairing a cracked cylinder, retyring (all 18 wheels) and everything else associated with a heavy general overhaul. This was its first overhaul since 1963. The livery is an authentic rendition of that applied in 1940 when 3526 was rebuilt including new frames,

 

Breaking News!!

I've just stepped out from the Delorean and news report in Steam Railway January 5th 2039 reads............

Following an online vote, Steam Enthusiasts are delighted with the recent major overhaul of ADB98699 into their chosen authentic 2013 livery that was carried when the celebrity engine was first restored to mainline service by the team at Carnforth. The BR crimson and unique lettering with late BR crest attained 75% of the votes from the enthusiasts who no longer recall the locomotive from pre 1960s service on BR or LMS.

....... I'll just get my coat......

 

Although made in jest - and I appreciate the humour - that last bit hits the nail on the head and demolishes the 'enthusiasts know the difference' theory.

 

Yes I agree and very much tongue in cheek.
Can I just add to the mix that if I am fine-scale modelling a chosen locomotive then naturally research is required to get as much accuracy as I can for the number in question. If I knowingly see a model with something 'wrong' I feel it has to be called out. Interestingly I did a lining commission where the client wanted his gauge 1 fine-scale model to mirror how it was when he saw it on the NYMR so maybe this subject is of it's time?

Strangely I am much more forgiving & tolerant with 'bigger trains' although a desire for authenticity is still not to be dismissed completely. I see both sides and take neither if allowed.