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S&D Railway Trust

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Herald

    Herald Member

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    Sorting the rent issue sounds simple and attractive, however, there are a number of difficulties depending on the rent revision clauses written into the lease. Without sight of these it is hard to speculate but for exactly the same reasons as the charity not being able to give money directly to the PLC the Trustees also can't agree a rise in the rent which is not in accordance with the lease conditions unless some fundamental change has taken place. Whilst a notice to quit would be such a fundamental change it would clearly be invalid, on the basis of the grounds given in the notice, if the Trust was then offered the opportunity to stay with a new lease at an enhanced rent.

    A possible alternative might be to arrange some sort of payment for services as a means of increasing payments to the PLC. For example maybe the PLC could decide to non-stop all trains through the station and then the Trust could make a payment for services to stop on the basis that it was in the Charity's interests to have visitors arriving by train.

    Other options also exist for boosting PLC revenues such as the sorts of joint ticket arrangement between the KWVR and the museums at Ingrow where the KWVR charges for a combined ticket but unless the visitor actually goes to the museums (which clip off the corners of the KWVR ticket and return them to the KWVR) no revenue actually passes to the museums.
     
  2. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Some interesting suggestions, tho' I fear that the payments by the S&DRT to the Plc might well exceed any revenue from visitors coming to WD by train and paying to visit the Museum. I suspect that many, with just a basic curiosity, would be content simply to look in the shop and the signal-box and stare across the track at the rolling-stock for free. Whilst it might allow the S&DRT to 'get around' any restrictions on payments to the Plc, would they not need also to justify - if only to their members - such a continuing loss-making arrangement?

    Are there any figures on exactly how many people get off at WD specifically to visit the station, the Musuem and the local attractions (such as they are), rather than merely (say) getting off one train and on to the next simply out of curiosity. IIRC I did once walk the WSMR from Watchet to WD and then rode the train back, but that was more to do the WSMR than visit WD.
     
  3. Herald

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    Surely the issue is not how few people currently get off but how many might be enticed to do so with appropriate marketing? Is the reality that decades after railway closures the public has insufficient interest in specialist museums for them to be viable? Should such museums look to broaden their attraction with more hands on activity or exhibits of potentially wider interest such as railwaymen's cottages? A quick look across attractions elsewhere reveals a wealth of different approaches with some generating significant visitor numbers including a number where multiple visits across the season are encouraged through the ticketing arrangements (e.g. Ironbridge Passport ).

    Could the walk referred to and the attractions of Watchet be effectively marketed as part of such wider initiatives about the development of the area? What additional family orientated activities might be introduced to encourage visits? (If we're ever allowed out again!)

    The trouble with much discussion on here is that it is focused on reasons not to do things where the reality is that only by offering a product the public wants at a price it can afford will anything survive. Perversely the conversion of the WSR to a cycle path as suggested elsewhere might make Washford much more viable but as a cafe business with small museum attached!
     
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  4. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    That is maybe another question for another thread, there was for example in recent moves by the GSWR to describe itself as a living museum which would make it more closer to say Beamish, Ironbridge or Weald and Down where the emphasis is much more on telling the social and economic stories than the 'where is a shiny steam engine restored' approach of some lines.

    But this would involve a fairly radical rethinking of railway museums and what they are for, what story they want to tell and how they tell it.
     
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  5. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Combining the train with the walk between Washford to Watchet (mostly along the old mineral line formation) is popular and is, of course, just one of a wide variety of options taken up by folks who use the Railway.

    See http://www.wsr.org.uk/walk-wd2wt.htm - give it a try one day.

    Two other walks featured on this page http://www.wsr.org.uk/walks-from-stations.htm - along with leaflets and booklets describing walks from WSR stations.

    [​IMG]

    Steve
     
  6. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    The museums at Didcot and Sheffield Park are Arts Council Accredited Museums and, likely, there are some others. The IOWSR is an Accredited Museum in its entirety, aided, no doubt, by having 100% passenger stock from prior to 1924.
     
  7. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    I have no knowledge as to why the Plc via a solicitor issued a termination of the lease to the S&D Trust.

    However as a TTI I have travelled past Washford station regularly over more than a decade.

    During that period a sign board has been displayed on Minehead platform when the S&D museum
    is open.

    During the decade the station has been increasingly unmanned. (and the museum closed)
    ( I have been told, but this is merely hearsay, that this is due to falling S&D membership )

    During this period the number of passengers alighting at Washford to visit the museum has declined.
    Queries as to whether the museum might be open were a regular occurrence, over
    the last few years hardly ever queries other than at steam Galas.

    During the decade all WSR stations ( except Doniford Halt, other than for some peak season
    services, a request stop ) have initiáted travel ticket issuing facilities. ( Washford does not ).

    Useage of the Washford station is low, at a par with Doniford Halt despite location adjacent the A39
    and recently the Dunster to Watchet path plus nearby Cleeve Abbey ( an outstanding
    ruin, of National significance )

    I have always admired the S&D Trust, especially their acquired collection of written ephemera,
    artefacts etc and particularly their foresight in transferring said archive to the excellent Somerset
    Heritage facility in Taunton

    However I was very dissapointed that when we were preparing with the various stations for the
    Flying Scotsman visit in 2017 the S&D Trust were unable to join in. Indeed the Station other
    than the platform remained unopened during the event. We used Plc volunteers to patrol the
    platform, specifically against line trespass. All the other WSR stations engaged enthusiastically
    in the event, in some cases arranging additional car parking nearby, extra food and drink
    facilities and most important all the requisite safety facilities ( including individual station plans )
    essential for the overall
    event plan.

    None of the above justifies the Plc in issuing a press release including reference to the S&D
    as 'Cuckoo in the nest" . Similarly it is difficult to understand why in 2010 the Plc
    should wish to terminate the lease in ten years and then eight years later the
    then Chairman signs off a fifty year lease. ( AFAIK the SCC lease to the Plc permits subleases
    up to 25 year duration. )

    However the picture painted on this forum of a big bullying Plc landlord and a perfect
    ever helpful cooperative S&D tenant is an oversimplification. However if we follow
    the guidance of some contributors to this forum we might end up with no PLc, no
    operating WSR Railway and the S&D unceremoniously turfed out on to the street.

    Let's all support our favoured Heritage Railway (s) in whatever way we are able during
    the very challenging months ahead. Specifically any who are encouraging and or
    assisting with a purported Legal dispute twixt the Plc and the S&D could they please
    think again.

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The S & D point out that the museum and shop was open on every single day that the WSR was running last year.

    I note that you do not acknowledge the financial contribution from the beer festival and contributions in kind made by the S&D by purchasing things for the WSR.

    https://www.sdrt.org/images/files/news/press_release_20_03_20.pdf
     
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  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Really, you've never mentioned that before!! ;) So are the entire entities of the NYMR, Ribble and Nene Valley by the way, all of whom use mostly Mk1s...
     
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  10. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Obviously could do with saying more but I agree with Monkey Magic about whether this is the right thread
     
  11. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Really? 100% of the passenger stock, bodies, underframes, running gear and all, is from before 1924? That's a bold and impressive claim!
     
  12. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping the Boston Lodge heritage project sets a new high bar in this regard - but that is somewhat off-topic for this thread.
     
  13. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    [QUOFTE="Forestpines, post: 2561903, member: 5805"]Really? 100% of the passenger stock, bodies, underframes, running gear and all, is from before 1924? That's a bold and impressive claim!/QUOTE]
    Forgive me, but that is a bit of a nitpick. Everything has something replaced.
     
  14. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    And. to keep it in perspective, what is the peppercorn rent that WSR pays for the complete line ..... ?
     
  15. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    >>>During that period a sign board has been displayed on Minehead platform when the S&D museum is open....

    As also is the case at BL I believe, certainly during Galas, although it has to be said that there have been time when the process has been 'patchy'.

    >>> During the decade the station has been increasingly unmanned. (and the museum closed) ( I have been told, but this is merely hearsay, that this is due to falling S&D membership )
    This was certainly the case by about 2010, the membership (a) falling noticeably in numbers and (b) becoming increasingly elderly as so few new, younger members joined. I can't comment however on the most recent decade.

    >>>During the decade all WSR stations ( except Doniford Halt, other than for some peak season services, a request stop ) have initiáted travel ticket issuing facilities. ( Washford does not ).

    There were, and may still be, a number of issues here. Firstly, unlike most of the other WSR stations WD does not have a readily-available dedicated ticket office, as the S&DRT used the GWR one as their Archive Room. Even if it were put back to TO use, there is no public access to it other than via the S&DRT's shop, which would have caused problems if the WSR wanted the TO kept open when the shop was shut. Any tickets sales at WD would have to be done by S&DRT shop staff as/when the shop was open and IIRC there were 'issues' about S&DRT volunteers doing such work on behalf of the Plc. At one time the Plc actually appointed their own Station Master for WD, by agreement with the S&DRT (whose own long-standing SM had retired), but the arrangement came to a rather abrupt end......

    >>>Combining the train with the walk between Washford to Watchet (mostly along the old mineral line formation) is popular and is, of course, just one of a wide variety of options taken up by folks who use the Railway.
    Indeed. Also, with the new coastal path section towards Old Cleeve, it is feasible to do a circular walk around through OC (a nice little spot) and back down into WD by another route. There certainly is scope IMHO for more targeted marketing - but of course, it would be nice if the users of the coastal path could continue to see a nice railway museum rather than a PW storage yard....:)
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Here's a daft idea. The Council demand increased rent from the PLC, then pay a sybsidy to the S&D Trust to cover their increased rent to the PLC.;)
     
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  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There's a definite inconsistency here, which ought to be readily resolved. How is it that one party is saying they were mostly closed, and the other is saying they were always open?
     
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  18. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Very Heath-Robinson - which I suppose is quite appropriate really!
     
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  19. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    When you have hatchet jobs like the one Michael Rowe just pulled (which was a reheating for the same WSR talking points that have been made before) it shows how are apart the sides are and how unwilling the WSR and it’s vocal supporter are to compromise. You would have thought that in the spirit of coming together in a crisis, the WSR and it’s supporters might have it down a bit, but clearly not.

    This I think shows why posts such as @Big Al earlier are at best delusional and at worst idiotically naive. There is clearly no desire to compromise, let alone establish a modus vivendi.
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The PLC seems to subscribe to what was sometimes claimed to be the GWR attitude: there are two ways of doing anything, our way and the wrong way.
     

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