Bluebell 2009 "Modernisation"

see http://www.dlm-ag.ch/index2-en.htm

On the site they explain all the figures, Note the English pages are not very up to date! They are in additon working on some new steam engines for the indian Government, as well as a few other Swiss railways, including one that has always had Electric traction!

The new designs are built to look like the old designs. At least one older loco has been rebuilt with the new technology. They are also turn up and go!

The SBB in mainly electric, so they are not interested in Diesel or steam engines, it is the tourist lines that are where the sales are, as well as replacing the diesel engines in paddle ships, and as stationary plant.

The replacement of steam across the world has had much to do with short sighted accountancy rules, "oh look by getting rid of those old steam locomotives, we can save all this money (in the accounts)" was it really cheaper for the UK to scrap 10 year old steam locomotives, with disposable diesels! We have been living in a disposable society, diesels are ideal for that, they can be made very cheaply, used then dumped. In the future we will not be able to throw away half of what we do now, A steam locomotive designed to last for 100yrs ( paddle steamer "Montreux" of Lake Geneva )
and environmentally friendly seems a good idea to the Swiss, rather than a diesel engine that only would last 30 years.

I agree that Electric locomotives are better in many ways than steam as Raven of the LNER thought! Large scale steam power stations will always be able to beat small scale mobile power stations, but against diesels, steam may well be the future.

 

It is for The Bluebell Railway to decide what trains they do or don't run on their railway. Does that clear it up? I am not getting into any argument about boards / trustees / memberships or whatever. That railway is a private entity and makes it own decisions in whatever way it may choose. I dont care, but I do not like people criticising because they dont necessarily agree with the decision. A lot of people freely put a great deal of hard work into projects which are then taken apart on forums like this one and that is not fair. It is not always the constructive criticism that Chris refers to.

As for the second point, well maybe you are right, "post in haste" etc, so Domeyhead you have my apologies. I shouldn't have 'personalised' things but I thought all but accusing Daniel (dhic001) of being an elitist snob with an "I-know-better-than-you" attitude for pointing out a historical fact was a little harsh. I didnt realise you are out to debag all those touchy puritans with their entrenched closed minds. Perhaps you could give us an example a puritan's posting, because I haven't actually seen one in this thread?

Best Regards,
Andy

 

Andy :

Your quote, "I don,t like people critiscising etc", are you not guilty of doing exactly what you are asking people not to do?, and before you say it , yes I have been guilty of this too.

Best Regards
Chris

 

I dont like people criticising an institution because they dont like the decisions taken. I am not doing quite that here, but I see your point clearly. I shall probably always call for less criticism (or more discretion, shall we say) when other peoples' hard work is involved. It is easy to get caught up in these things when you have been the one turning out of bed at 5:30am to undertake something that now seems under fire. I am proud to have been involved in some small way with keeping the steam shunts etc going. Sometimes doing the difficult thing is worthwhile, sometimes economics is more important. Thats life, eh?

Now retiring from the argument,
Best Wishes
Andy

 

For thoes that are interested 73133 was named at Redhill Station and the spare name plate was given to the then Mayor of Reigate and Banstesad and was displayed in the Harlequin center where I believe it still is.
Now will a 73 on its 600hp diesel engine go any faster than an 08 yes but what is the load behind secondly will it be looked after ie will the oil water levels be checked the regular maintenance undertaken air tanks drained down etc because if the stories are correct this has not been the case with the previous hired in diesels or is this a ploy to eliminate diesels at any cost
Engineer

 

The people bringing in Perseverance are themselves members of the Bluebell Railway, they will no doubt ensure it is looked after correctly and may well be doing so themselves.

Chris

 

I undersrand that the one hired from Peak Rail went back with the tanks almost empty and the oil levels dagerously low.

Can anyone confirm this?.

Regards
Chris W.

 

It is a bit of plant, you have seen the state of the Wickham trollies etc. One or two people spend many hours maintaining / rebuilding them for the odd individual to break.

The Bluebell also has no facilities to look after diesel locomotives, and BR found that keeping Steam and diesel side by side, was not good for the diesel.

It has been found in the past that at least one person using a 08 had forgotten quite a few things!

 

Members of the Class 73 Preservation Society will look after it during its stay, all the Bluebell would appear to be doing is hanging a load behind it and giving it some track to run on.

 

Without venturing into the politics of the Bluebell Railway or locomotive owners/groups etc, I wonder how much fuss and/or approval the Bluebell management and membership would have if the sole remaining example of the Bulleid Class 12 350hp Diesel #15224 was to move to the line (its currently on the Spa Valley?) as a permenant resident?

For those who aren’t familiar with this type it is a late 1940's built BR(S) locomotive which in typical Bulleid fashion has BFB boxpox wheels (cast from Bullied Q1 0-6-0 patterns or so I’m told) is of true Southern pedigree, has a higher line speed of 27mph top speed unlike the BR 350 08class which is limited to 15mph, they and the similar LMS type 350hp class 10 and the 1937 Maunsell version #1-3 are the forerunner to the BR 08 class.

Saying that, with the recreation of extinct steam classes now being undertaken it wont be long before extinct diesels will be built by someone, I wonder if the Bluebell would welcome a replica of a Bulleid 1CoCo1? After all 10203 was built in Brighton in 1954...

 

The later revised edition of Brian Haresnape's book "Bulleid Locomotives" has a picture of a Southern-designed diesel shunter, although the details differ from what the previous poster has mentioned.
It does indeed have Boxpok wheels, but was said to have a 500hp 12-cylinder Paxman engine, and was numbered 11001, and has a quite different appearance to say the class 08 diesel shunter. It was intended for heavy shunting and transfer work. Withdrawn in August 1959, and the livery was always plain black.

46118

 

thats a diffeerent beastie altogether...


btw..the LMS style shunters were class 11...class 10 was a version of the 08 with a Blackstone engine iirc

 

ED 73136 PERSEVERANCE is due to be loaded onto an Allelys lorry in the afternoon of Monday 12th Jan for it's move to the Bluebell. A departure time of 17.00 has been suggested but that would mean rush hour so can't really see that being so.

The route is projected to be
Monday
A3
M25
M23
Layover, probably at Pease Pottage overnight.

Tuesday
A23 - Bolney
A272 - Chailey Crossroads (now roundabouts )
A275 - Sheffield Park

After unloading 136, Ex GWR steam loco 5199 which has been on hire, will be loaded for movement to the Churnet Valley Railway.

Driver training on 136 is likely to start on the 14th Jan with work on the spoil trains starting at the end of the month.

Now you can wave your flag or tear your hair out whichever suits you best. :smt062

I would be glad of a copy of any pics re the move to celgorAThotmail.com. Ta in advance.

 

Bulleid diesel locomotive information courtesy of the wonderful Southern Email Group website: http://www.semgonline.com/home.html

Maunsell 350HP Locomotives: http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/maunsell-350_01.html
Bulleid 500HP Locomotive: http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull-500_01.html
Bulleid 350 Locomotive - Class 12: http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/class12.html

 

Is it correct to assume that the Bulleid Class 12 was the inspiration behind BR's O9?

 

09's were 08's with different gearing but they were introduced for the same reason that the calss 12's had 27mph capability so ,yes, I guess you are correct.

 

Thanks for letting us all know. I must admit, although I am perfectly comfortable with the Bluebell's 100% steam policy, I'm certainly hoping that if we get some more sunny winter days that I can get over to the Bluebell and record 73136 in action. (A bit illogical perhaps, but I can't help it!) Any further info on precise dates/times of operation would be welcome. I haven't gone digital, but am quite happy to post copies of any decent photos I may take to you when the film is used up.

 

I note that most 08s are limited to 15mph now. However ISTR that whenever an 08 turned up at Hoo Jn instead of an 09, the cab was marked as 20mph. The drivers told me that the difference with the Southern allocated 08s was that they had an overspeed trip set to 20 mph, so could be driven at up to 19.5 mph, whereas other lesser regions relied on governing the speed. The difference meant that if a driver got an 08 up to 20mph, and the trip went, it was sudden loss of all power, and a brake application. Of course 09s were preferred by the crews doing the transfer circuit on a Sunday (Hither Green to Hoo Jn., change over loco, Hoo Jn. to Chatham Goods, change over loco, then back to Hither Green.)

I was quite surprised when I discovered that other 08s were all limited to 15mph. This should mean that an ex Southern allocated 08 should be capable of 20mph, and should have an overspeed trip switch in the cab.

I remember bidding for the 12 from Snowdown before it went to Brighton. Settled in the end for an 04.

 

I really like the idea of the Bluebell being steam only, as it is unique, but as Normandy and the North London Tank are out of action awaiting overhaul then a diesel is clearly needed for the extension work.

Would there be any chance of the Bluebell landing 15224 (the sole remaining Bulleid shunter) as that would be a compromise due to the Bluebell’s Southern heritage?

 

dont think there is any chance of that happening as it is very much in use at the Spa Valley Railway it is out almost everyday on engineers trains or shunting and very popular with crews myself included, i also help the owner maintain it to keep it running as the 09 and the 10 are out of action it is the only 350 at TWW!