West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Au contraire methinks. What the SVR episode shows is that once common ground can be found - and followed - there is no reason why a heritage line can't succeed. Sadly until that common ground is found it won't succeed - and the current situation is proving that the will to find that common ground is sadly missing and the WSR is suffering the consequence.

 

Let's not argue about precedents - I think we're closer than you believe - but agree on the importance of finding that common ground.

 

As a number of posts have been transferred to the SDRT thread, and this may not be apparent to forum members, I am copying my post this evening here, so that those following only this thread may see it and then post on the SDRT thread as a reply if thought appropriate...

"Looks like the Mods have transferred a number of posts onto here from the 'West Somerset Railway Operations' thread, which makes things a bit disjointed, but no matter, we are where we are.
I don't understand why my post (transferred) should prompt 'Bayard', but I can understand the historical family case he quotes, that is important.

Unfortunately, it is a simple legal fact/reality, that if the SDRT does nothing, then the provisions of the old Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 Part 2 take effect, and the WSR PLC gets back Washford station and the yard. This is despite my view that the s.25 'Notice to Quit' of 1oth February served by the WSR PLC board via it's Solicitors Clarke Willmott is invalid.

I didn't write the 1954 Act! It is an awful piece of legislation in these unhappy circumstances, but it is what it is, however draconian it's effect. It's faults and peculiarities have been known for many many years, and there is that 'Groan' moment when a civil litigation Solicitor gets a file on his desk from a commercial property lawyer with a 'Memo' attached - "Please sort this out"! And woe betide the inexperienced civil litigation Solicitor who also does not have a thorough grounding and understanding of property law!

I, and many others, are doing everything they can do to help the SDRT. This is not helped by the WSSRT and WSRA seemingly being impotent, and not expressing any support for the the SDRT over Washford, and the WSR PLC board being intransigent and adopting a stance of 'The SDRT will go' as per the 'Railway Herald' quote from JJP.

Cheers,

Julian"

 

Thanks for your answers. No-one has contradicted you, so I assume that you are correct!

Indeed there are many ways that events could develop. I was following through on the possibility raised in a previous post.

From the point of view of the general public and of the majority of rail enthusiasts, the principal wish will doubtless be that the WSR is able to resume and then maintain full-scale operation over the full length of the line - or as close as possible to that ideal. Questions of ownership and control will be secondary - but will nevertheless be important to some, particularly those who have heavily invested money or labour into the WSR.

Some posters have suggested that WSR PLC shareholders should "take back control" and elect new Board members and set a new direction at a future AGM. But if the WSR were to become insolvent and enter administration, particularly if that happens before the next AGM, then I am not sure what powers would remain with the present shareholders.

 

No powers whatsoever. An administrator’s job is to act in the best interest of the creditors, not the shareholders. It’s not a thing to wish for.

 

who though are the PLC's main Creditors? I would imagine SCC, Lloyds Bank, and the finance company that on paper own 7828, are the biggest three , And what assets do the West Somerset Railway actually own, outright most likily the Mk 1 Coaches, DMU'S etc, 9351 , assuming these are of course not part privately owned in some way,

 

OK, Here is a bit of a curve ball to maybe take our minds off who said or did what or when or how, to who etc etc.

Many of us are creatures of habit, same day for shopping, same supermarket, same brands etc etc. In some respects volunteering can become a habit. If it's the weekend (or any particular day) it must be time to go to the railway (any railway - take your pick). It becomes routine and we (yes I was one too) don't notice what else was going on elsewhere. It's a sort of inertia that just keeps us doing the same things.

So I'm wondering just what difference this long break is going to make to some volunteers. Remember that, apart from Santa's, many volunteers may not have worked since the October half term so we are talking about a good six months (and still counting) break. How many who might have been considering retiring in 'a couple of years' are going to think 'might as well stop now...'? How many may have discovered other interesting (and maybe cleaner or closer to home) ways to spend their time? How many who might have been regular volunteers are going to struggle to get back into that routine?

It's that inertia again, only this time it's working against going back. "Do I really want to go back,? Yes, I enjoyed it but there are these other things I've found..." Could be a thought in many minds. Some may have had to face personal scares, others may have come to face the fact that Old father Time marches on. Either way, how many have now decided that they must get on and do the things they have always promised to do but have never quite got round to it...?

Obviously there are those who are so enthusiastic they can't wait to get back (and their spouses might be thinking the same by now!) and will always return. But what about 'the average Joe'? (if you will excuse the term) Will they see 'their' railway as a warm and welcoming place to be? It will have to compete against any other interests the volunteer may have discovered in the mean time in order to get them back, once this is all over.

I don't have any answers and it's not the sort of thing anyone could forecast but it does concern me that, given the age of many volunteers and the length of the enforced break, there may be a distinct shortage of volunteers after this is all over. I hope not.

 

It's certainly a possibility. Equally it might lead to an initial upsurge in availability as everyone is relieved to be allowed out of the house again!

 

And of course this lack of volunteers might help to move the PLC, and this may be the desire of the chairman , towards having a nucleus of paid staff with very limited volunteer duties , for instance employed footplate staff, and maybe others such as a signaller, because you can control paid staff, more than volunteers who can just walk away, hence why the attitude towards the WSRA, and others, what was his Bus company run like, take your impression from that, is he thinking along a DMU only public service including running to Taunton, driver conductor guards, and stripping out all non essential things, why else set out to antagonise the volunteer groups, unless your plan is to only run a very limited commercial , only non heritage system , has anyone else had any thoughts along those lines, ?

 

Cor, you’re well informed!

Pray tell, what is the source of your detailed information?

 

Lets look at thee facts as we know them,
1 why else set out to undermine the heritage elements of the WSR the volunteer bodies? to what aim ?
2 if the railway goes under, the shareholding become defunct, so no shareholders, whats stopping JPP Holdings from launching an CIC to buy back the railway company with the intended aim of running a non heritage public service using leased DMU'S and operating an Minehead to Taunton Service, He would I think get backing from the SCC, and Minehead chamber of commerce and possibly government grants, .

 

Martin, we've been over this a thousand times, it would cost an absolute fortune to turn the Minehead branch into a viable commuter service to Taunton, the track is barely capable of running 25mph in its current condition, let alone anything faster for a competitive service, then there's all the signalling, before you get to paying for actual trains and staff wages. And after all that why would anyone take the train rather than the bus, when for most people who'd actually use it the bus is free and actually goes to Taunton.
Now JJP might be dangerous to the WSR, but I don't think he's quite that stupid to be plotting his own bankruptcy so spectacularly. He's clearly a steam enthusiast, he owns and fires steam engines, he just sounds like an extremely unpleasant person to do business with, damaging everything in his path as he goes.

 

Do you have a copy of the Dear Leader's plan ? I wonder what's intended for Washford e.g. a donkey sanctuary, a retirement home for the perpetually bewildered, an underground bunker or a bingo hall ? If you could share the detail then that would be greatly appreciated.

Mr Scotsman sir,

As for plotting bankruptcy, a bit of research into pre-packaged receivership can be quite enlightening.

 

Well yes, that might give a reason to run the current Plc's finances into the ground but not of some fictional future TOC running a DMU service between Taunton and Minehead owned by JJP, which was Martin's proposition!
To be honest I don't think it's particularly helpful to try and speculate on potential personal agendas, I think it's only likely to turn people off who might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause. Stick with what's actually happened rather than some fanciful notion, as there's more than enough to be concerned about already without "going off on one".

 

Some Somerset entertainment

 

Having watched and been involved in token exchanges from the footplate over the past forty years I have always thought that the most authentic recreation of the Signalman’s role is the person who ambles gently to the appointed position shortly before the train arrives. Not the person who takes up a stance with their receiving arm in a Nazi salute minutes before the train arrives.

 

At 1'23" - looks like the 4F is double heading. I assume from the position of the arms that the loco is travelling forward - in which case, is it normal in your rules that the leading loco carries the token? (In our rules, whenever there are two locos, the rear most loco carries it, a situation that I believe was similar in the "big railway" rule book until changing in the 1970s, presumably to cope with the situation of locos working in multiple with only one driver).

Just curious if your rules follow later practice, or traditional practice?

Tom

 

I don't quite follow where this relates to the possibility of a shortage of volunteers after we are allowed out again.

Go back a page or two to see a previous comment of mine. If the Plc fails the current Light Railway Order lapses and no one can run passenger trains until another is obtained.

 

Tom I think you need to remember which of the Railway Companies this line models itself on.
They do everything differently.

 

IIRC the WSR did indeed change from the traditional 'last engine' rule to the 'leading engine' rule some while ago, but there are others on this list who can give a more up-to-date answer than me...

I can recall the days when it was train-staff-and ticket between WN and BA. A double-headed train was at WN awaiting a late-running up train, so the train crew from both engines sat out on the platform in the sun.

In due course I was able to get Line Clear from BA. The rules required that the front engine be given a ticket and be shown the staff, which would then given to the rear engine. I walked down the platform to the crew, who decided to play 'silly b*****s' and not tell me which driver came from which engine :-( So I waved the ticket and staff in front of both of them, then stuck the ticket in the front cab and the staff in the rear cab and walked off !