West Somerset Railway General Discussion

There is always the risk of keeping a practice 'because we've always done it like this' even when the reason for the practice being adopted has long since become redundant. (The classic example cited is the driver oiling around the loco in motion even though mechanical lubricators had been introduced and missing his signals in the Ais Gill accident). Sometimes a change is a good thing, change for the sake of change is not.

 

True

Mind you, there are other issues as well. I am familiar with a situation at the moment on another heritage railway where someone has identified a potential (but not yet proven) problem and come up with what they have decided would be the 'solution'. The problem is that their 'solution' is not applicable to the real nature of the problem, would not resolve the problem anyway, but could be done more effectively (and cheaper!) by an alternative method. But sadly they have got this idea fixated in their mind and no amount of patient, reasoned explanation (bordering on sheer exasperation!) will convince them otherwise (yet).

 

That and clearly unsuitable people finding their way to positions of power, and its an depressingly regularly happening you might say, especially when people actually invite these people to the board, when a back ground check would clearly pose answers to this persons suitability, its almost a mindset of desperation, of people already promoted beyond their own capabilities looking for a life saver, and they instead turn to someone, who in turn throws them overboard, and then goes and compounds the problems even more,

 

Perhaps I imagined it but are there not a set of standard interview questions that have to be gone through before bringing someone onto the board ? They may include the following

• Provide evidence that you have operated successfully within a regulated industry. How can we validate your answer ?
• If you were on the board, would you have any conflicts of interest ? If the answer is yes, how would you ensure those conflicting interests did not become a factor in the day to day operation of the railway.
• One of the strengths of the WSR is that there are many diverse and often contradictory viewpoints. How would you ensure that the viewpoint that best serves the WSR prevails while keeping everyone on board.
• How will you work with the supporting groups and in particular, the charities who have fiduciary obligations that must be upheld under charity law ?

I would expect that if there was no answer or an unsatisfactory answer to any of the above then it would be a case of don't call us, we'll call you. Was there any process that was followed in onboarding the Dear Leader ?

 

Although, because it's Easter Sunday, via a long diversion due to engineering works.

 

A little Bank Holiday amusement from the WSR Guards

Robin

 

Are you sure about that, Peter? My understanding is that locos assisting in the rear normally had to be coupled to the train. There were a few exceptions but definitely in the minority. I have in front of me the LNER North Eastern Area General and Sectional Appendix and it states that locomotives assisting in the rear must be coupled unless otherwise specially authorised. Table J of the Sectional Appendix lists places where trains may be assisted in the rear. There are four possible conditions:
A) assisting engine must be coupled to train
B) assisting engine must not be coupled to train
C) assisting engine must be coupled to train by engine coupling and uncoupled by the guard with shunting pole from end of van
D) slip coupling must be used which driver will uncouple when detaching. If slip coupling not available train must stop
There is a fifth condition in that during fog or falling snow a slip coupling must not be used.

Looking though the table there are 63 places where (A) applies, one place where (C) applies (between Denaby & Sprotborough) and 12 places where (D) applies. There is nowhere in the North East Area where condition B applies.

With regard to the line which now forms the NYMR, double heading of freight trains in both directions to Goathland summit was prohibited unless an engine was also assisting in the rear. An assisting locomotive in the up direction may be detached at Goathland and assist in starting (uncoupled) as far as the up starting signal.

 

It's Quantock Brewery Old Steamer. The Brewery shop at Bishops Lydeard remains open for sales and is offering free delivery within 12 miles of BL. Give 'em a call or visit. Cheers!

P. S. WSR Gold' 76 also available in bottles.

 

Train buffets are licensing exempt and not therefore allowed to do off sales. Bottles are supposed to have tops removed at the buffet counter. Purchasers of alcohol must hold a valid travel ticket.

 

I'm sticking my neck out here and no doubt I'll be proved wrong but what about banking out of London Victoria, Euston, Manchester Victoria, Glasgow Queens Street? I did not think Shap or Beattock bankers were attached, but just dropped off when the summit was reached. The same occured up Parkstone bank between Poole and Bournemouth. These are just passenger operations, where banking was less common. For longer distances freights were banked while passenger trains were generally assisted by means of a pilot loco at the front. Were Copy Pit bankers attached or not? And what about the Licky bankers, or for that matter the Worsborough bank that made use of the LNER's Garratt. This latter banked up the incline unattached. Certainly the famous ill fated freight that cost John Axon his life at Chapel-en-le-Frith was assisted by an unattached banker when things started to unravel on the 8Fs footplate.

I wonder if maybe there is a distinction between banking and assisting, in that banking engines are unattached and assisting engines are attached. Just a thought. But no matter where such operations are needed the method of working will be covered by the relevant Sectional appendix.

Your final comment about the rules for what is now the NYMR has me thinking. I wonder if the need for an assisting engine in the rear was to lessen the chances of a loose coupled train parting on the hill and running away back downhill. I guess that the theory being if the train is so heavy that it needs two locos, one of them ought to be at the rear to prevent a runaway. This of course did not apply to pasenger trains which were often doubleheaded over our section as the continious brake would prevent a runaway if the train parted on the bank. This would apply anywhere in the days heavy loose coupled freights being worked over heavy grades.

A lot of supposition on my part here I must confess,so please feel free to tell me I'm talking rubbish.

Peter

 

Just a classic case of The Peter Principle in operation ...... in a given organization everybody gets promoted to their level of incompetence ......

 

The TT cafe is indeed licensed but, I think, just for 'on' sales.

 

I don't think you are talking rubbish but you are certainly making interesting comment.

I accept entirely the fact that there were many places where trains were assisted with the rear loco uncoupled and, as you say, these would be covered by local instructions in the Sectional Appendix. My disagreement was with regard to saying "As a rule..." Even today, in GERT 8000 Module TW1 Section 15.1 it says you must make sure that the assisting locomotive is always coupled to the train except where authorised in the Sectional Appendix.

With regard to a distinction between banking and assisting, I'm open to correction but I don't think the word banking occurs anywhere in the various rulebooks and instructions that I have. I suspect that it is one of those unofficial terms used by everybody, just like we generally say 'chock' and 'clamp' a point but the rulebooks say 'scotch' and 'clip'.

 

Your last point may be a regional/former company difference. Where I worked we always said "clip and scotch" or "clip and plug" points, never used "chock and clamp". The terms used for wheel scotches also vary, where I worked scotches were used under rail vehicle wheels but chocks were used for securing road vehicles on car flats. On the heritage railway I currently volunteer at many/most people refer to chocking wheels of rail vehicles although the regulations say scotch.

 

My understanding is that a scotch is used to stop a rail vehicle moving (can also be used as a verb); chock is used to stop an aeroplane moving. I always try to use the correct term though increasingly chock seems to be used.

As for points “clip and scotch” down here; I’ve never heard “chock and clamp”.

What do people on the WSR call injectors? Invariably “jacks” in our neck of the roof (as in “get the jack on” or “the jack’s running, mate”).

Tom

 

Wasn’t there an accident in the North East where an unattached banker lost the train in fog and ran into the guards van and killed the guard?

The mention of Beattock reminds me of the accident when a 50 couldn’t get up the hill, the train behind it was brought up to bank it (it had bankers), the assisting loco wasn’t attached, the front train started away, a gap developed but then it lost speed and the train that was behind it went into the back of it. I recall that the accident report emphasised that if the trains had been coupled together the accident would not have happened.

I maybe remembering things incorrectly here so please correct me if I am wrong.

Lickey was one of the last places to have bankers into diesel days were they attached?

Probably they look on them with suspicion as a nasty modern invention and almost certainly the work of the devil. Nothing ever went wrong with a good old fashioned hand pump.

I never knew that the WSR ran through Royston Vasey.

 

The only times I’ve ever heard the term Jack used was by Bluebell and KESR men, the first time being about 1965 when Allan Barratt referred to them, as such.

 

We scotched and clipped on the Underground, but the IOW clip and plug!

At least remember to put the scotch in first whatever you call it!

 

When I worked near London Victoria I often went to watch the steam specials depart and usually the diesel at the back could be heard banking the special, sometimes the diesel was coupled and so stayed with the train, sometimes it was uncoupled and dropped back once the special had got going.