Current and Proposed New-Builds

Of course there are some railways that are (always?) flying close to the wind financially and when "push comes to shove" with regards to being a "viable business" it will depend on who decides it's a outfit worth saving?

(PS - for the avoidance of doubt - it may not be the rose tinted enthusiasts that do the deciding)


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Hmm... This thread seems to have moved alarmingly quickly from talk of "current and proposed new builds" to talk of scrapping locos! No doubt heritage railways will suffer a hit from Covid like many other aspects of our lives. There will be a setback, but let's reflect on why heritage railways and mainline steam exist at all in the 21st century: love, enthusiasm, people prepared to give time and money. Much of that will continue, even though at a slower pace and perhaps fewer people.
We will get over this!

 

I shouldn't worry too much about the scrap man. Currently copper is worth £3600/tonne, Brass £3000 and steel £145/tonne. So a 100 ton locomotive containing 10 tons of non-ferrous is theoretically about £49k. The true price tag on that locomotive is likely to be 20 times that, and scrap men, and bank managers are not silly.

 

If someone will pay that.


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I think you'll find that steel scrap is about half the price you quoted.

Bob.

 

I was going with top prices. True that weighing in light steel only gets you about £65/t, but locomotives and rusty fence wire are not the same thing

 

.....but you don't have the, not inconsiderable, cutting up costs with light scrap and fence wire. You might get closer to the figure you quoted if the loco was already cut up and transported to the dealer but those costs would have to be recovered from the sale price. I'd be interested to know where the "10 tons of non-ferrous" would be? If one was to scrap a loco there would be a much better return on selling the parts for re-use IMO.
Ray.

 

To be fair, I think that was the point @ross was making - the returns on just selling locos for scrap will be lower than selling them as extant objects.

Tom

 

Assuming of course that the money exists to buy them as loco's.....................

 

which was sort of my point in the first place.

 

Very well said!

 

Guys, the point is if an operable locomotive is "worth" £50,000 as scrap, the scrap man won't cut it up. He will know what happened to Dai Woodham. I'd find £ 40k for a hall, no problem. Wouldn't you? In two years it'll be back at half a mil which makes it an investment even my wife would allow.

 

I'm with you on that. I'd certainly scrape together £50k to buy one of Riley's Fives!

 

After a bit of research it seems that the 47xx has a longer "fixed" wheelbase than a P2 and the special rear axleboxes (ex 5227 ) give some lateral movement to compensate. If this is the case then the instability is inherent. I am puzzled therefore in my last Newsletter dated April 4th there was still mention of construction "to a standard suitable for mainline running" ! If the mainline option has been dropped ( as a 4709 Supporter I do hope so ) I also hope the original No.1 boiler will be used after all as otherwise I fear the loss of the golden thread of provenance stretching back to Swindon.

 

Using a knackered ex-Barry No1 was a bloody silly idea that should never have been mooted in the first place when overhauling it would be as expensive as building the No.7!

As for Didcot, the place is dying on its feet for want of new blood, it's a mausoleum of dead locos on an island marooned in the middle of Notwork Fail hell on the edge of a featureless shytehole town that makes Swindon look attractive. GWML electrification doesn't help. If the 47 or indeed the Saint or Pendennis are to have an operational future, they need to head for Bridgnorth or Toddington. I would say Minehead but two years hence I fully expect that line to be a cycle path.

Frankly, in my admittedly nihilistic and misanthropic opinion, it's about damn time we had a mass extinction event to stem the tide of unsustainable population growth and reduce the destructive impact humanity has on this benighted planet, there are far too many people whose contribution to the world in no way justifies their consumption of its finite resources (and yes, I include myself in that, before you ask!). If the present clusterf*** causes some stagnating or short-run railways to close down, and force those that remain to consolidate their position, with Barry wrecks and other knackered heaps (30064 at the Bluebell springs to mind) being sold for scrap, I view that as a healthy thing. I can also think of at least four Bulleids which are unlikely ever to be restored even to static display standards and would be of rather greater value as scrap metal, along with a few of Mr Stanier's two most popular designs, at least one 4F, the remains of a Jinty, an assortment of rusting Swindon machinery, and heaven knows how many unrestored cheap junk industrials ill-suited to pulling more than a couple of 4-wheel wagons half a mile...

Can we now please STOP proposing new-builds, finish those that can realistically be completed (H2, Patriot, Grange, 47, Counties, Bloomer, G5, F5, Clan, 3MT, 2MT, 2007, maybe the GCR 4-4-0) and forget the rest? The last I knew, the LNWR KGV amounted to a bit of nicely painted sheet metal and nothing more. The 3MT Mogul is a spare smokebox door for 82045 (assuming it fits, perhaps unlikely given the lack of commonality between the risibly-named Standards!). As for the non-existent Claud Hamilton, or that pile of scrap and pallets at Mizens pretending to be a B17, which I'm surprised has yet to be torched by Woking pikeys...

...and STOP PRESERVING BLOODY PACERS!!! Do you REALLY want the public to think you're a load of idiots wasting their donations?!

Bring on the apocalypse, I say. It can't come soon enough. The global population has been growing at a rate of over 80 million a year... this virus has only succeeded in killing a sixth of one million so far. That's little more than a week's population growth. We are still in a net growth situation, and not even the complete obliteration of the British Isles would remedy that. But I digress...

 

As I've asked before, who do you think you are to suggest scrapping someone else's loco?
I have no connection to the kgv project, but I know that a lot more has been accomplished than you suggest.
Perhaps you should get off your high horse and join the rest of us in enjoying our hobby instead of trying to dictate how everyone else should act.

Keith

 

And there's me thinking I had a penchant for dragging threads off piste!

 

Do be careful with the hand sanitizer, it can be powerful stuff.....

 

For your information, the smokebox door mentioned would fit a 75, 76, 77, 80 and 82. As previously mentioned, keep off the hand sanitiser!

 

I believe that further discussion on Pacers may warrant a split thread, but I'm curious as to how much they could be bought for these days? Yes they may be an icon of less-than-ideal public transport, but here we have a fleet of operational, apparently easy to maintain DMUs selling for perhaps little more than scrap value - with that in mind it doesn't surprise me that some people want to acquire some!