Ministry of Transport Wagons

Hi All,

I am after some help. I own a cut down hopper wagon. I think it was part of a batch of wagons, destined to go to France during WWII. When France fell, in 1940 the wagons were completed as hoppers.
I would like to know if there are any other hoppers / chassis in preservation.

Brian

 

The Railway Heritage Register Wagon Survey Project
at http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/wsearch.asp might be useful.

 

Wouldn't it be Ministry of supply ( MOS) rather than Ministry of Transport?

 

As I understand it there were some steel mineral wagons built for use on French railways after Liberation, but any that went over there were returned as soon as the SNCF could get its own wagons back into action. There was an article about them in Model Railway Constructor in the mid 1960s. A privately owned example of the mineral wagons was at Bodiam station (K&ESR) for some years before the station re-opened, but I don't know what happened to it subsequently. I wasn't aware any had been completed as hopper wagons, but not surprising.

 

I would like to find out if any other sort of wagon was built on this type of chassis. Were any turned into plank wagons, for example ?

 

I am always amazed as to how quickly SNCF etc got rid of the wagons so quickly. Did they really manage to get wagons back that quickly? Or were they really bad?

 

If anyone has a copy of Peter Tatlows, " A Pictorial Record of LNER Wagons "
Look at page 63, plates 126 and 127 show examples of these wagons. Going by the text with the photos. Some wagons didn't even leave this country.

 

The Railway Heritage Register Wagon Survey Project shows one of these at the NRM and another at Mangapps.

 

Short wheelbase (9' vs 16') and low capacity (16tons vs 29tons), compared to what was standard over there at the time. I'm not even sure if they were air braked.

 

A photo of my wagon.

 

I’m not sure about the WW2 connection. According to the wagon survey your wagon dates from 1935:

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=11317

A bit of messing about with the search criteria comes up with several others:

(Chassis only, 1937):
http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7417

(1945, original condition):
http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6341

(1947, rebodied 1977):
http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8073

(1948, original body):
http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7461
(Stated as presumed scrapped - a crying shame if true!)

(1949, looks like rebodied type):
http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7373

There may be others.


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Hi pmh,
Many thanks for your post. Here is another photo, which may help more. I'm in no doubt, it has been a hopper.
Just not 193254.

 

Have a look at this photo too, from the NRM archives.

 

Comparing this wagon with your chassis, I can't see them being the same wagon. The riveting of the frames is quite different and there are no holes where the door opening mechanism should be mounted. The spring hangers, W irons, axleboxes, buffers and drawgear are all different. It may well have been a hopper, as evidenced by the footsteps, but it certainly isn't LNER 193254.

 

Hi Steve,
I've just found a great web site, on the Grimethorpe Coalite wagons.
I think I'm going in the right direction now.

 

Hmm yes I see the problem. Not an LNER hopper then. Sorry I can’t be more help but if anything does turn up I’ll post it here. That handbrake lever is quite distinctive.


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Having had a look at my copy of Tatlow I'd agree that you have the chassis from one of the hoppers as shown. The buffers, axlebox covers and spring hangers are quite distinctive. Unless you're going to go to the, not inconsiderable, cost of restoring your wagon to 'as original' I'd restore it as a potentially useful P.Way flat for the extension. Best of luck with your project.
Ray.

 

From the searches I've done. My wagon might be a one off now ? If I could get some funding / a grant. I would consider rebuilding it, as a hopper wagon.

 

This is what my type of hopper would have looked like, In BR Days.
My thanks goes to the railway author, Peter Tatlow. For his advice, and the photograph.

 

Looking at those pictures, was the handle originally connected to opening bottom doors on the hopper? Then repurposed, to actuate later addition brake shoes, as a handbrake?