Liveries!

It could be suggested, though, that you are imposing your definition of "right" on everyone who might not agree.

 

If only they were equally observant about operating practice!

Tom

 

It depends on what you are recreating. The reality is that in the 1980s, were 50 years removed from the grouped lines, in 2020, we are 50 years removed from BR blue.

I sometimes get the sense that when it comes to what should be recreated some people think that what was done after 1968 with steam locos doesn't count and what was done with diesels after 1990 doesn't count either.

And yet, pre-nationalisation liveried locos on blue and grey Mk1s was a feature of the 1970s and 80s, as incongruous as it may seem. Garraway Green, and Red Carriages should be considered every much 'heritage' as a replica of a livery that was last seen in 1908.

And moreover, I'd argue on the real railways, liveries have always been a miss-mash of schemes current and old.

 

He may. As a heretic who likes the Ivatt in unprotototypical LMS red, I’m in a poor place to comment, but my dislike is for prototypical paint schemes never applied to that class of locomotive. I’ve no issue with bespoke schemes (I rather like the KWVR schemes), but otherwise I’d rather the livery was genuine to the locomotive or, at a push, the class. And, on that, I do agree with @flying scotsman123; it surely can’t be harder to do it right than wrong - whichever “right” is chosen.


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I'm an absolute heretic, then, because I really enjoyed 45699 in maroon. I knew it was only fun, not a recreation of anything from history.
But it was an interesting thought, it might have happened in different circumstances.
And I thought it looked handsome: better than BR green in my opinion (although Bahamas looks fine in green too, I just prefer red fives red!)
Yes, I'd prefer LMS red. But I enjoyed the fake BR red.
Yes, occasionally people get confused and think it was a recreated historic livery. But then it's very easy to provide the correction.
Anyone who's well read enough about railways to know about BR red livery on the pacifics will read that it was only applied to... pacifics.
Anyone who's forming their ideas about railway history only from one observation or photo of the contemporary scene is going to get pretty scant historical info anyway.
I also liked the rebuilt MN in blue and the Hall in red....

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The first photo is copyright Colour Rail, Deviant art is just a hosting website and has all sorts of things on there they didn't aught to...
The photo in the third photo is the new build Brown Bear, not Polar Bear...
Look, a contemporary photo has misled someone again! Someone could easily think there was a third Groudle Glen Bagnall back in the day, or that Polar Bear is back at Groudle, or...
(Just reiterating, what people extrapolate from photos is much more than liveries).

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But a certain contributor to a certain railway journal wrote about someone who could recollect seeing a Jubilee in BR red, must be that Dave down the pub again. All total nonsense but that’s how history gets distorted. I never pointed a camera at Galatea and it’s a shame that it couldn’t be disguised as a later series engine to give it authenticity in green. The old Buxton commuter Express regular 45705 Seahorse would do fine.

 

So people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy steam now because some fantasist might imagine he'd seen a red jube (although every published book would quickly prove him wrong)?

It all depends whether you think steam now is *purely* about historical re-creation, or whether it's also sometimes just a lot of fun.

If Galatea was the only Jube, I might have cared.

As it was, I was delighted to point my camera at it!
(I've shared this photo before)

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In other shock news, the Talyllyn only ran two locos pre preservation, the Nene Valley wasn't in Sweden, the East Grinsted to Lewes line and Oxenhope branch didn't use Bullied Pacifics, there weren't S15s from Pickering to Whitby, the Leighton Buzzard line was diesel and freight only, the S&C didn't use Peppercorn pacifics... and that Peppercorn pacific is a *fake*, even if Dave down the pub swears blind he saw it at Top Shed in the fifties.
Relax, lads and lasses. It's all jolly good fun. And if you want to know the history, that's why the good Lord gave us books.

(Tornado is a magnificent achievement, the above is satire)

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Actually, and I only bring this up for the lolz, but there are photos of Bulleid Pacifics on the line from the 1950s. Can't remember ever seeing a Dukedog though ...

Tom

 

Ha ha, got me with that one. Damn things got everywhere.... I've even got one upstairs! (Quite a small one)

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Would it have been in gauge?

 

Well, it is now now, and I don't think we've significantly moved the platforms!

Tom

 

If only we could be.

 

I like a mixture personally. I like BR liveries (and the blue diesel era too) but I also like the big four ones too. Of pre group ones, a couple I think are a bit gaudy and over fussy, sorry Bluebell guys, but they are the SECR and LBSC yellow ones. The LYR and LNWR got it right! The GER blue was smart, as was the Midland.

 

"Wrong", with respect to liveries is, of course, almost entirely subjective. Were it otherwise, this thread wouldn't be as long as it is. Cocking up an historic livery is one thing, if the item in question is represented thus. If there's intent to deceive, quite another. Of interest, where do you stand on photoshoots of 'long lost locos', renumbered from preserved examples?

What sticks in my craw is the persistent hectoring by those who decide they're in some authoritative position to pass judgement, or claim that this date, or that particular random date is somehow sacrosanct. That person ain't thee or me. We can merely express opinions. Mine happens to emphasise some different considerations to yours. It happens .... and let's face it, if we all agreed all the time, what a boring place the world would be!

My OP referred to logic chopping, which, when it comes to matters non-loco related, you've just displayed, with a notable degree of the very inconsistency to which I referred, though you're scarcely alone in that, as, to one extent or another, we all do it!

Relevance of my comment re:Bluebell heating? In discounting my comments on this, you're so invested in the minutiae of one area that, with respect, you overlook the bigger picture. If our passion doesn't address the very real and legitimate expectations of the public on whose support our lines rely, where does that leave all those finer points?

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but those of us who'd actually notice, never mind care about the difference between, say, early and late BR crests aren't likely to provide the income to support all our wonderful heritage lines. When it comes to comfortable accomodations, I'd suggest the issue is of rather more relevance to 'joe public' ... and we forget considerations like that at our peril.

Regarding moquette, whilst your point about extracting max benfit from something serviceable has merit, I've seen too many examples where threadbare seats have appeared in recently spruced up stock which, although there may be valid reasons, doesn't mean you can convince me it doesn't detract from the overall passenger experience (unless you're trying to recreate the dying days of late grouping period stock!).

As in all things, it's a question of striking an acceptable balance.

 

Do you mean Hornby ought to make interlocking compulsory?

 

... and if “right” results in that everything is in an identical black livery, then maybe there are other, equally important, commercial considerations.

 

Whilst wet paint attracts insects dry paint attracts paying customers to whom different liveries and nameplates present a greater incentive to visit as a paying customer. If in doubt an extreme case is that of Flying Scotsman which attracts many customers prepared to pay an extravagant price to say "I've been pulled by Flying Scotsman".

 

But was that the paint or the appeal of the engine?