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Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I think many will already have done this work. The scenario you paint though is one which will give most railway managers a serious headache. No one should underestimate the severity of the impact on the heritage railway industry if this is the what happens.

    No one is going to pick up where they left off. The big issue is not paperwork it is money. No matter how firmly railways bear down on costs, an extended period like this without income is going to be very difficult. It will without doubt change pretty much everything that had been planned to be worked on, in order, timing or extent. Without money maintenance will accumulate during the shutdown and there will be a catch up to do. Projects currently underway when lockdown happened are delayed. Other projects will not start for a while because of the need to recover financially. If the scenario you paint is what happens then there will be people who have not operated a train in 12 months or more, and no matter how good they are or were, they will need refamiliarising with their job, they will be a little rusty and that is a training issue.

    I am sure with enough effort and support we can overcome the obstacles, because railway preservation would not be where it is today if we hadnt become adept at solving problems, but no one should understimate the very serious mountain that needs to be climbed.
     
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  2. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    What if.....
    What if the XYZ railway were to ask for volunteer "passengers" to come and assist with a staff training/certification excercise. These people could sign up in advance so the railway management would be sure they had enough "passengers" to make the exercise worthwhile and steam up one or more locomotives. They would have to act like tourists, and ride the train, and generally behave as if they were paying members of the public, though allowing for social distancing rules to be respected. This would allow XYZ railway to train/test sign off as competent their staff.
    It could be worthwhile, and if these volunteers chose to pay £15 for a cup of tea and a bacon butty....
     
  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    East Somerset Railway has no signaling & the famous Fibreglass MK1 Suburban.................
     
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  4. acourtrail

    acourtrail New Member

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    My theories about problems preserved railways are going to have once the "Stay at home order" has ended (I don't call it a "lockdown" (even though everyone else calls it that) because it isn't one). The (vital) restrictions (even at their most strict) are no where near as severe as what an actual lockdown really is. In a real lockdown - absolutely no one whatsoever would be allowed out of their home under any circumstances whatsoever - and it would be the army and not the police enforcing it. Anyway that's my pedantic moan about people using the wrong terminology over and done with - now to get back to what I actually wanted to say - ie about preserved railways getting going again!

    The first problem is most of the volunteers are in the "vulnerable" group - and AFAIK that group have had to socially isolate since well before the "Stay at home order" came in. Even though some of the restriction have been eased - I don't think it means that "vulnerable" group people can go out again yet (AFAIK - they have to wait until the government actually tell them it is safe for them to go out). Because a large proportion of the volunteer base are in the "vulnerable" group and still "confined to barracks" - a lot of railways will be simply unable to muster the staff to sensibly get going again at least this year (and quite possibly next year too).

    The second problem is that is very difficult to socially distance at a preserved railway. Yes - the government are aiming to allow some social places to reopen from July (maintaining the 6ft rule) - but I doubt it will actually happen that soon. Once those places are allowed to reopen - it will most likely only be things like Art galleries (following a strict route and only allowed to stop to look at each picture for a certain amount of time), Safari parks (but just the bit where you drive around the animal enclosures in your own car), Coffee bars (take away only) and some leisure centres where it is possible to keep people 6ft apart (ie Gyms where the treadmills etc are/ can be placed at least 6ft apart) or the number of people can be controlled (such as a Swimming pool with a limit on how many can be in the pool at a time). I cannot see these easements including any social place where people can't easily keep 6ft apart (ie sports stadiums, theme parks, night clubs, cinemas and sadly train rides for fun).

    The third problem is that the public are going to be reluctant to do anything that involves travelling by train. As people will be aware - the government rules are to avoid using public transport if possible (because it is much harder to keep 6ft apart in the confined space of a bus or train). Even when (if ever) the restrictions are fully lifted, the public are going to have a fear of using public transport (because they will be frightened of catching (enter illness, disease, bug etc here) off of other passengers).

    As to when I think preserved railways will be able to reopen. I would be amazed if it will be anytime this year (but I would love it if I end up being amazed) - and it wouldn't surprise me very much if things end up with them being unable to reopen at all in 2021 (but I am cautiously optimistic things won't come to that).

    What we sorely need is for a vaccine to be invented to stop us getting Covid (or failing that someone to invent medication to substantially reduce the effects of Covid). Once we have that - we can then really get back to normal.
     
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I feel like the ORR would take a bit of a dim view of that, having suggested that running some ECS services to get everyone in the swing of things beforehand I expect that's what they'd like to see happen, not some cunning ruse to fulfil the letter but not the spirit of that. It's still inviting members of the public onto trains whilst staff are still remembering how they work. I don't see a problem with other volunteers coming along for a jolly though, as long as they hold a valid work permit, it could be quite a fun day running the railway with no members of the public! :)
     
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  6. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    What I meant by that is not that everything will be the same but railways should over the period of lockdown ensure that they are moth balled in a way that, finance allowing, enables them to commence again in a fairly straight forward manner by ensuring there is some line side maintenance, locos and stock properly stored out of use for a period. Basically there is minimal work required if they want to start operating again. That is opposed to the "toys" just being abandoned at the start of the lockdown, nowt being done in the period since so they have to spend weeks sorting when things open up. e.g. if over spring and summer the odd weed killing, hedge trimming train etc is sent out if we are only allowed back in the Autumn you have got gone an overgrown line to clear.

    Obviously plans and projects will be knocked back. Some for a period, some never to see the light of day again depending how good railways are at attracting funds. I have surprised at the differential in the success of some railways appeals compared to others who I would consider roughly in the same league
     
  7. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    I am obviously going to need a bigger car to take all these people in their PPE, each 2m apart.......but hey it's a business opportunity if they pay me £10 each and the railway charge £10 per car?
    However on a more serious, and some would say a callous, note, I think I would like to have the choice as to how I spend the last few years of my life. I appreciate All the work done by the NHS, Govt, H and S, safety organisations, scientists etc in giving my generation the longest, healthiest, lives ever.......but we all will die sometime, of something. Yes Covid is horrible and Yes it has killed many thousands........of mostly older, more vulnerable people. Yes the Govt has been correct to try to contain the spread of this, then unknown, disease. But younger people are now suffering far more from the economic and social effects....and that will have health consequences.
    I would rather enjoy the last few years of my life with family, friends, volunteering and socialising etc, than possibly living a couple of years longer, in relative isolation, in what might become dependant misery. After all there are risks in every aspect of living....more people die in bed every day than doing anything else, will shopping be more risky than a visit to a heritage railway?
     
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  8. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is a point of view that has a lot of merit. The chances of anyone catching the virus are low and even lower of even us fit over seventies dying of it. People forget the big influenza epidemic of 1968 which killed over 80,000 people in this country. It is forgotten bevy there was no lockdown
     
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  9. zigzag

    zigzag New Member

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    Agree wholeheartedly, the virus on the whole is serious/deadly to certain groups of people (elderly, health conditions), the goverment and media have focussed entirely on the number of deaths as a headline, try to find the numbers who have contracted the virus and who have recovered - this number isnt being publicised, why? The government by constantly highlighting deaths has bred a fear of the virus amongst the whole population whilst, except in isoloated cases sadly, that fear should be confined to the elderly and infirm. If we were to see the recovery rate as being in the high 90%s then we wouldnt be so scared and our way of life wouldnt be changing quite as much as it has (I am treating all stats from all nations with a large dose of salt as they arent done on a consistent basis but the Dutch stats office have said that 99.5% of those under 60 who are hospitalised go on to recover), the risk of death in the younger healthier bracket is less than that of going on a long car journey, yet people are, imo wrongly, living in fear and to voice this opinion brings out all the do-gooder clapper types who say the new normal is what we have to get used to, in fact all we have to do is to protect the vulnerable and accept a slightly greater degree of risk on our lives and get back to normal as quickly as possible. I cant wait to visit the first line that reopens.
     
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  10. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I know posters may take a different view from mine that it is mainly a paper exercise to evidence appropriate actions have been considered, but to be frank if a volunteer/member of staff on a heritage railways is too rusty to operate safely having had 12 or 18 months away I would not really want to see them see them operating trains in "normal" times as it would worry me that they are not really up to speed if that length of gap made them not safe.
     
  11. MikeParkin65

    MikeParkin65 Member Friend

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    Joking aside I agree with this. I am sure others of us would pay to view a 'railway show' without riding on the trains - in fact that is pretty much what I do at most Severn Valley galas - buy a ticket but then ride my motorbike between various vantage points along the line to watch the show!
     
  12. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    It is a discussion we have had at work and many take the view that having geared up the NHS and given due notice to those in vulnerable groups so they can self isolate for 12 weeks if they want you just let life go back to normal. Almost the Swedish model.

    Many would continue to social distance and cases would probably rocket. The number of fatalities would rise, you might be looking at 200,000 or so in the UK, but as against the harm that current measures are doing in terms of mental health, non treatment of other diseases etc., I am sure many are of the view that is the way to go.

    However it would be a very brave politician to agree to that route now as you would be forever blamed as the person who caused x00,000 to die unnecessarily. That level of blame from the media, relatives of those who lost loved ones etc would be pretty tough to live with for the rest of your life as you would not be allowed to forget it.
     
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  13. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I have seen lots of ideas how railways might be able to run the odd train to make a bit of money from social distancing to sitting in car parks. Out of interest how much does a railway need to make to make it financially worth while to operate a one engine in steam service.
     
  14. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Rather more than for the same service, with a diesel up front. :(
     
  15. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I know but I presumed the railways would be looking at putting something on that would be of interest
     
  16. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    The only heritage line I have read, that seems to have a realistic approach to its future, is the G&WSR. For all lines there will be much to do, if you read the ORR letter on a NP thread here. Longer lines and those with a lot of rolling stock and locos will have far more to do. Whist there is much optimism here on NP it is not going to be something that will be achieved in the near future I do not believe.
     
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  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's a really sensible comment. A significant slice of the demographic of folk who visit and also work on heritage railways are people who are not in full time employment any more. Many of these will also be financially secure - no/low mortgage, state and possibly also another pension - so they will be able to spend money.

    How they spend that money and where will be the question. A line that is proactive in showing what it is doing and how it is doing it may be able to function. For example, if trains run then you can only book on them on-line and the number of seats will be restricted. One return journey only in the same seat in the same stock etc etc.

    It is possible. Just needs a creative mind and good PR.
     
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  18. JEB-245584

    JEB-245584 Member

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    Or even cheaper if you use a Pacer!!!
    Seriously it all depends on how you want to do the accounting.
    The ELR chairman states around the £2k mark, and from experience I'll go along with that.
     
  19. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for other railways, but on mine we did all that in March.
    Pat
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The fixed overheads of the non-loco rated component of operations will be much the same, regardless of what's 'up front'. For the most part, diesel services tend not to pull in the same numbers, although right at the moment, given the need to ensure 'social distancing', that may even be seen as advantageous.

    Assuming, for various obvious reasons, volunteers will be thinner on the ground than usual for the foreseeable future, some normally steam operated lines may find diesel services a more realistic (perhaps the only practical) proposition. Until/unless controls are relaxed sufficiently to permit two (or more) crew to operate within the confines of a steam loco's cab, it comes down to doing whatever's possible to get the wheels turning again.
     

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