BR 4MT 4-6-0 whistles

I'm curious as to what types of whistle the 75000 series 4-6-0s used in BR service. Alas, the preserved locomotives give me some confusion with regards to this!

• 75014 has a chime whistle - quite like the larger 5MTs and express passenger types.
• I've seen footage of 75027 with what seems to be an LMS-type hooter - I thought that only the LMS and WD locos used them, not the BR Standard types!
• And as far as I know, the other preserved members of the class have Western-type whistles, like most other BR standards.

Could anyone well-informed tell me whether this class only ever used the Western-type whistle in BR days, or were chimes (or even hooters?!) used as well?

 

Herewith a pic of the whistle ostensibly from 75070. Apart from the Pacifics and 73xxx (the first 73xxx had Britannia-type chimes behind the chimney, many/all[?] of which were later replaced by GWR type), the Standard whistles were all the same (basically a copy of a GWR small whistle), and were all mounted on the external manifold. With the exception of the 9F, the others were all mounted on the top face of the manifold by a female/female L and R hand threaded nut (underneath and at the near side of the attached image). The 9Fs, presumably because of height issues, had them mounted via a square flange on the front of the manifold.

This habit of fitting non-authentic whistles (and it is not just the whistle, 80079 has a 9F fitting) is one of a number of reasons why preserved locos are not necessarily a good guide to authenticity.

 

Thank you - very informative! I suspected that 75014's whistle was inauthentic as it was mounted on the manifold rather than near the chimney so it's nice to see that suspicion confirmed (and tells me that it's probably right that my model of 5MT 73014 has the chime whistle fitted).

 

I think you may have misunderstood Robin's answer. 75014's whistle may not have been the 'correct' type but I believe that it was in the correct position, on the manifold, on top of the firebox just in front of the cab. The B.R. diagram and official photos show that the whistles on all the std 4 4-6-0's were fitted to the manifold. Apologies if I misunderstood your post.
Ray.

 

No worries on the misunderstanding - 75014 has a chime whistle, but to my knowledge the 5MTs and Pacifics which had the chime whistle tended to have them positioned close to the smokebox, hence my suspicion regarding 75014 having a chime whistle on the manifold. The position's not wrong for a 4MT, but it is against the trend of the chime whistles which made me think "that engine didn't always have a chime".

 

I'm sure you have noticed the other obvious restoration fault on 75014, namely the oval buffers. These were only carried by the Class 4 2-6-4Ts and Duke of Gloucester in BR days - all other Standards had circular buffers.

Peter

 

All bar 70045, for a while - oval buffers, that is..

 

Thanks - I did not know about 70045.

Peter

 

Photographed 70045 with round buffers in 1965, this one is 1966. Maybe gifted from a withdrawn loco.

 

I believe several preserved locomotives have "non standard" whistles. This was sometimes due to not having the correct one available or the preference of the owner/group to have a different one for the preferred actual sound.

 

Indeed

Indeed, I was already aware of 46512 and 6619 having obviously different whistles. There are probably a few industrials and narrow gauge locos who have had similar treatment as well, I would imagine.

 

Just a slight correction. Standard 5 4-6-0s 73100-73171 had a GWR style small whistle mounted on the front of the manifold, similar to those fitted on the 9Fs.

 

Thank you. Always hazardous to be too sweeping.

 

At present 45407 has a horrendous deep chime whistle that Ian Riley had on 76079 for a while. I stand to be corrected but I thought the Britannias had a two note chime. If that is true then 70013 was not fitted with a standard whistle during its last ticket, having a three note chime, it certainly didn’t sound like 70000, more like an A4.

 

Three note chime whistles were the norm on the Standards fitted with chime whistles, similar to the A4s.

 

This Doncaster drawing shows that chime whistles were indeed the same as used on the A4s.

 

I had wondered about this in the past, I had assumed that she had ended up with them in BR days for some particular reason?

Regards

Chris

 

Many here will be familiar with Bill Hoole who holds the the official post war steam speed record of 112mph on 23rd May 1959. Having Alan Pegler on the footplate may have had something to do with it. When Bill retired he was presented with a chime taken from an A4 and took up an active retirement driving on the FR - usually on Prince.

Bill's family have retained a close contact with the FR - and that whistle is currently carried by NGG16 Garratt no 138.

 

On the subject of 45407 (or perhaps a different Black 5?), I came across a video today of a Black 5 on Jacobite workings, with something that sounded rather like a whistle from a Bulleid pacific!

 

76084 has a chime & typical BR Standard whistle