Locomotives that NEARLY made it

There was also one person involved with the Farmer's Line that the Bluebell was mad to buy a Standard Class 4 and it was much too big and Terriers were more suitable. Thank heavens there was a diversity of opinion and we have such a range of locos for us to enjoy

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Its interesting though that if you take away the two 8 coupled classes, which were phenomenally long lived, you are left, I think, with the two Dean engines, 5322, 1361 and the Star, and three of those were preserved in the 50s or earlier.

 

I'd say 10000 is the biggest missing link in modern traction (the first mainline diesel in the country?) regarding the Blue Pullman as you say they were all withdrawn in 1974 when diesel traction preservation was in its infancy.

From what my friends in the DTG have told me it was bad enough trying find a home for 7029 and 821 so imagine trying to find a home for a few power cars and 6 /8 coaches.
Anyhow weren't they all supposed to be exported to Romania?

 

How times change, nowadays the Standard 4s are perfectly sized for the demands of many railways.

I can't help but wonder what if a Thompson L1 had been preserved... It had a ludicrous tractive effort for a 2-6-4T! My source says it had a tractive effort of 32,080 lbf compared to the 4MT tank's 25,515 lbf.

 

I think the point with a Blue Pullman is that you would have been taking on a whole train, not just one unit - that would have been a big ask for many preservation groups at the time - and I suspect would have been doubtful who at that time where you could have run it.

With regard diesels: not really my field, but the really significant loss to my mind was 10000 / 10001. Blue Pullman seems to me to be mistaking opulence for significance - a bit like how the NRM is full of Royal Carriages but very few "ordinary" carriages.

Tom

 

Wonder how an L1 would have performed on a heritage line at 25mph? Maybe better than in BR service?

 

I suggest that you join the 125 Group then, who are well advanced in plans to preserve a full HST, and ran the prototype HST power car for a few years. And scrapping has already started.

 

Talking about how views on the suitability of locos change over time, I’ve read lots of account of a small number of people who were opposed to the B12 being preserved on the NNR. Arguments seemed to be it was too big, unrestorable, or not a ‘true’ M&GN locomotive.

 

I think there is some significance in the Blue Pullman, as the conceptual link that showed you could use multiple units for proper inter city duties. I suspect it's existence was one of the hidden enablers of the later APT and HST programmes, and that if one had survived, it would be regarded as of great historical importance. As it is, the early history of the DMU as preserved lies in the NER petrol electric railcar, through the GWR railcars to the variety of 1st generation "ordinary" DMUs and DEMUs, and now occasional Pacers (one of which, I believe, will be going to the Swindon and Cricklade when GWR are done with it). With the possible exception of the class 126 "inter city" DMU at the Bo'ness & Kinneil, the long distance DMUs - Blue Pullman, Trans Pennine sets - are very poorly represented in preservation.

 

Not just the question of where to run one back then. To many 'of a certain age', the Pullman marque generally was symbolic of congenital class division (recall ASLEF and NUR were neither counted amongst any fanbase) and of the outmoded world that a UK officially hell bent on leaving firmly the past behind at the first realistic opportunity, if not earlier. One of the derisory monikers applied to the Blue Pullmans was 'The Expense Account Express', as most ordinary mortals would never hope to park their bums in such luxury.

I'd imagine too, like much else back then, they were riddled with asbestos, which would doubtless have become the issue it has with other preserved 1st gen diesels, although I do think it a shame not so much as a power car was preserved as, even though they were something of an evolutionary dead-end, they could reasonably claim their position as a pointer to the HST, if not a direct antecedent. Oh well, you wins a few and you loses a few.

 

The Southern had been using "multiple units for proper intercity duties" for nearly thirty years prior to the introduction of the Blue Pullman, though - they even had a luxury one as well. So I think the historical significance might be overstated. Maybe what you meant was "showed the rest of country could do a pale imitation of what had been routine south of the river for decades"

Tom

 

And the B12

 

It's Achilles heel in BR service (or at least one of them) - undersized driving wheels - could well have rendered it very suitable for heritage railway use.

 

Having grown up within earshot of the LSW main line and gone to school in sight of Wimbledon depot, I’d dispute your contention about SR intercity duties - neither Brighton nor Portsmouth lines being what I’d regard as inter city routes.

And, while I’m slaying sacred cows, I will also say that I’m not convinced that the GWR use of railcars on the Birmingham to Cardiff run was true inter city work, though that case is more robust.


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Yet a day out in Sheringham isn't complete with at least having a look at the 'Jolly Green Giant' it's the most wonderful machine.

 

First loco my little boy had a ride behind, less than 3 months old. His first Hornby train set contains a B12 as well...

His haulage record isn't going well. 8572 is the only LNER loco he's had, yet he's had five GWR locos!

 

Mate your doing something wrong!
One of the highlights of the SVR spring gala(the one where it snowed!) in 2018 was being in the Gresley Buffet and listening to 8572 attack Highley and Eardington bank. As the old man said 'You've come all this way to enjoy an engine you can have at the seaside!'
It was worth it!

 

In fairness, three of the 5 are Manors!

 

While I appreciate the difficulties that preserving 10000 & 10001 would have presented at the time, why didnt The National Collection NRM or whatever it was in those days look at saving one of them?

 

I think they were offered one, but declined. Linking into some of the remarks about preserving a Blue Pullman, I also believe a group had been setup to save a set. But due to a combination of factors, not least the asbestos contamination [ironically it was Blue asbestos in a Blue train] which even by then was starting to be frowned on...... Also the abilities of the various heritage line open at the time to run/look after a set. Bear in mind at the time the North Yorkshire Moors was the longest line open at 18 miles were still learning the ropes of operating such a long line.