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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's a challenge I won't rise to. :)
     
  2. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Oh, I can think of one homogenous body of enthusiasts...;)

    And yes, you are right, Tom. As has been the case for almost a lifetime - it will be the WSR supporters who will save it. Again.

    I know the three boards don't want to...but...it is now high time for the Plc, the Steam Trust and the WSRA to agree that they must all go into that cocoon and emerge as a single and new charitable body so we can at last get the right structure to manage what is a truly wonderful railway and a great asset for West Somerset.

    Steve
     
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  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    It may be in a "big 3" (my own choices would be different, but each to their own), but I share @Sidmouth's view that it covers a set of bases that, between them, are covered by other railways. Meanwhile, his description of the organisational politics of the railway raises the question many of us have about whether, as a set of organisations, it deserves to survive.

    If heritage railways' survival through this year is a question of "survival of the fittest", brief reading of the literature on natural selection shows that evolutionary adaptation is the key feature determining what do and do not survive. I am as yet unsure whether the WSR is, as I fear, a Giant Panda (highly specialised, only capable of survival in changing circumstances through massive intervention) or, as I'd hope, an alligator, surviving through many epochs due to an innate fitness for survival.
     
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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Aside from the management issues (and isn't hindsight wonderful?) perhaps people should recognise rather more clearly the fact that this was a railway that was saved, luckily, perhaps because the land where it ran didn't have any major alternative demands on its use. That made it more 'available' for acquisition that perhaps might have been the case in other areas. So, good news.

    But what it has always had working against it is its length and the fact that it was 'just' a branch line constructed to a specification of a branch line with all the underlying infrastructure issues that would go with that. It seems that these are now coming home to roost, accelerated perhaps by heavier locomotives than the line was not designed for such as A4, A3, A1, Duchess, King and Bulleid, to name just a few.

    So a high maintenance railway with big overheads. One wonders how much that has contributed to the financial problems that seem to be present and over the past twenty years or so how that has been anticipated and planned for?

    Just a question but possibly an important one.
     
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  5. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    The plc cannot become a charity and there seems no will on the part of its management for the majority shareholder in it (the plc) to be a charity. From my perspective, there is no charity existing in the WSR 'family' that I think deserves from their actions in the past to be that majority shareholder. Other views exist, I know.
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    worst case scenario is it goes the way of the Stegosaurus
     
  7. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Hence the word "new" in my post. The current Plc ceases to exist, being replaced by the commercial arm of the new charity. As you say, other views exist.

    Steve
     
  8. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    ...or, like the coelocanth, found lurking in the mud at the bottom of Blue Anchor bay in another 65 million years.....
     
  9. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Well, I am sorry if that how it came across, but the intended meaning (which I think is pretty clear from the quotation) is those who gaily propose courses of action for other people to take which could have serious adverse consequences for those other people, but none for themselves, like suggesting that trustees of the WSRA use the pages of an internet forum to attack the policy of the WSR Plc.

    Yes, they would be worth listening to, if they were actually suggesting practical solutions to some of the problems currently besetting the WSR. Suggesting that the WSRA "reverse the decision of the Plc on the S&DRT" without suggesting how they are to do this in a way that is likely to be successful does not fall into that category. Nothing is impossible for him who doesn't have to make it happen.
     
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  10. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    But the existing plc holds the operating licence, which can't just be transferred to another entity.
     
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  11. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Presumably though - assuming that

    1. The money could be found, and
    2. The PLC board would permit the necessary shares to be issues

    There is no reason why the WSRA/WSSRT/Successor to these organisations could not become the majority shareholder in the PLC in the way that the Bluebell is organised.
     
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  12. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Well, that goes some way towards answering your question, doesn't it?

    None of the stations on the WSR have been "snapped up years ago & converted to private houses". All would be eminently suitable for conversion to offices or houses, depending on location.

    Well, if SCC are charged with getting full market value for their assets, as you stated in your last post, slapping a restrictive covenant on the land is hardly going to do that. Also a Grade II listing offers less protection than you might think.

    As I said before, banks are always happy to lend against land. If the Plc think they can raise money against the value of the land represented by the cessation of their lease, then they have probably made enquiries and have been told just that. All it would take was a few e-mails.

    The purchase of the freehold is being discussed, not because SCC has said that they are going to sell it, nor because anyone thinks that they are, but because the Plc have said that they are interested in buying it. Other than that, the intention has always been to proceed in the way that you outline, as you would know if you had read back along this thread.
     
  13. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Absolutely. But it is not a showstopper.

    Steve
     
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  14. Fish Plate

    Fish Plate New Member

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    Precisely.

    The way it should be organised is an umbrella charitable Trust that holds the controlling interest the PLC. The aims of the Trust is simply to support and provide direction the PLC, and the PLC operates the railway on behalf of the Trust. The Trust is not a membership body, that is done separately. This is how the FfWHR is structured and is why the Trust can present a cheque to the PLC for £1/4million. In the case of the WSR, this would allow you to keep the WSRA, Steam Trust, SDRT etc. as their own entities and they can continue exactly as they are now. Taken to its logical conclusion, the Trust could, in due course, purchase the freehold. It really isn't rocket science and is the model that works on many (the majority?) of the volunteer-based heritage railways in the country.

    Having followed the ins-and-outs of the WSR for several years now, I am well aware of the historic reasons for why it's not presently setup in this way, but with the current Covid-19 crisis and the highly questionable behaviour of the present board, it really does shine a light on the fact that things in West Somerset need to change. I know it would not be easy due to the shareholding of the PLC but sadly, with the present incumbents of the PLC board, I think the chances of this happening a virtually zero without something catastrophic happening*.

    *For the record, I have absolutely no desire to see the WSR close; it is a fantastic railway with dedicated staff and volunteers.
     
  15. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    WHY ??

    This is a reality check IMHO. Whilst I accept that enthusiasts / supporters may support more than one railway, in the current situation- where money is short and leisure funding even more so - any spare finance will be prioritised. A supporter may have a choice of supporting 5 railways with £10:00 or 1 railway with £50:00;I would suggest most supporters would tend to go with the largest sum to the least number of lines. With such priorities I suspect that the WSR in the current situation does not promise a good outcome as other lines seem more able to develop a consistent policy of progress that involves the supporters rather than either antagonises or ignores its supporters. If the PLC wants support from its supporters it has to support its supporters not antagonise them but - given its attitude towards changing its policy over the S&D Trust - I don't see such a policy change taking place. I hope to be proved wrong - but as politics has continually shown - a fragmented team never wins at election time.
     
  16. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Edited for clearer understanding of what is needed by the WSR PLC Board IMHO
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Whats needed is for the board to rescind the eviction, for the chairman and those who backed this ill advised action to agree to stand down at the next AGM, In the meanwhile a series of meetings should be held involving all groupings with in the railway to find a way foreward that promotes a single society membership, and a single board with involvement at board level from all the main players, so no one group has no influence, or too much influence over the way the railway is run,
    There should be a new supporting society formed who's aim is the support of the West Somerset Railway, and a way found to acquire the so far un sold shares in the PLC, in return for providing funding to ensure the railway can re open when the time is right this would ensure the charitable side has a controlling interest to safe guard against any hostile intentions from anyone buying into the Railway at a later date.
    a full set of employee( Paid & volunteer ) regulations be written up based on best practice with in the industry with a proper independent appeal procedure . no person to have their id cards removed without due process and then only as a last resort, except in such cases where the action is deemed so damaging, that removal and banning is the only rightful action.
    All previous removal of id cards be rescinded and the persons invited to return, with no adverse conditions set on either side, and where a person has been unjustly treated a full apology by the board be given ,and action taken to redress the wrong doing , and where the actions of past board members has brought the railway into disrepute, they should face disciplinary action, up to a life ban from the railway in exceptional situations .
     
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  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I stand by my use of “fitness”, as willingness is just one quality required


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  19. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    Steve, , as I have suggested in the past on this forum ( I am mindful of the earlier quotation from Saki
    , particularly in my octogenari year ) that the first objective of the WSR currently is to ensure
    the Railway survives the current shut down.ie a combination of managing the fixed overhead and
    shaking the begging bowl.

    The time should also be used to consider how the future operation might flourish.

    Restructuring is clearly an important challenge ( I have always dreamed of an overarching charity with
    the Plc as its trading arm ).

    However the reality is that survival is the imperative. The more the WSR , WSRA and Plc work
    together the better, but planning a major reshuffle now could 'take the eye off the ball"

    Regarding the S&D : an unfortunate distraction at this time. Let us hope the current discussions
    'behind closed doors' resolve the issue.

    Finally at the risk of upsetting some. If some of the energy displayed by those repeating the
    same mantra over and over again on this ( and the parallel ) forum could be directed to
    helping promote the Heritage Rail sector that would be a step forward.

    Michael Rowe
     
  20. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    I don't disagree. Quite right that survival comes first. I spent almost all of my spare time last Saturday on one particular piece of work to help spread the word. And yep, no point planning any changes if there's nothing left to change. However, I say there is every good reason to discuss this openly rather than (as often happens) never get the ball rolling because of of a crisis. And we all know the WSR lurches from one crisis to another. So I see no harm in lobbying the boards to consider the concept of radical change for the longer term good of our wonderful railway.

    Steve
     

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