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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    Which is directly comparable with the Peter Principle. .....
     
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  2. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    The group of concerned WSR Volunteers who started the Petition/Open Letter recently would be a good source of info for you. They should be able to tell you the number of active volunteers and people close to the WSR (shareholders, stakeholders, etc.) who have signed out of the current 533 total.

    You would have to consider that many active volunteers who don't use social media don't know about the Petition because the 3 Boards have not passed it on to their members/shareholders to consider, but it would give you a view.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Moderation Update

    After discussion, a number of posts linked to the above one have been reinstated. Whilst the information about JJP Holdings is in the public domain it would be helpful for reference links to be included so that people who are interested can draw their own conclusions and thereby decide what direct relevance it may have to the WSR and its operations.
     
  4. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Could not at least the WSR PLC board issue stock/shares to the WSRA over the 'Promotions' sale?

    Although technically worthless in monetary terms on redemption, it would dilute the WSSRT shareholding and would give the WSRA the considerable 'clout' over the WSR PLC board that has been lacking for 45 years?

    19th century railway stuff was littered with debts being assuaged by the issue of shares as a sort of 'guarantee' for the debt, however worthless they turned out to be.
     
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  5. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how widespread that view, in the hard-line form you give it, is; I suspect many of the quiet readers are more in the middle. E.g. from my perspective, yes, there is a worrying level of authoritarianism and 'disagree and you're out' going on, but I would be somewhat surprised to discover that there's an organized group with that as an explicit goal.

    Noel
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  6. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    There’s even a graph. I trained as a scientist, so I like graphs. This is a particular favourite.

    Robin

    A26771BB-B0B5-4E58-97E6-47B81CF1A0F8.png
     
  7. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    The petition? Seems to me to be substantially those who volunteer on the WSR and have 'HOPS' access. Was it up to 528 signatures the other day?

    And Robin in her above post could possibly have said something more relevant rather than display her intellectual prowess, that I am sure is not in doubt; but where does this help the WSR and also the SDRT?
     
  8. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I must be confused; I thought that was the very antithesis of "great conspiracy to concentrate all power into the hands of the plc". But I must admit my interest in the details of the WSR goings-on has flagged.

    Noel
     
  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Noel,

    I'm not very good with computers but this was I think the first post over the petition...

    I think we all have difficulty keeping up to date on all this, and I was about to 'like' 'Monkey Magic's' most recent post - but it has been removed before I could 'like' it.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The problem though is this, how would the other ego's take it, if the WSRA were allocated shares in Lou of payment for promotions? There is no trust I would say between any of the groupings, and that is a very large part of the problem, none of the organisations exactly have over the years have not fallen out with each other, or had their own agenda.
    Its going to not take just a new structure, but new personalities, who have no baggage from the past to turn things round,
    My feeling is that West Somerset Railway Mk1 is going to at some stage fail, and what it needs it for people to come together, have an new structure , new organisations, one hopefully where there is one charity for the whole railway, with the majority shareholding in the operations company, apply for a new operating licence and in the meanwhile fund raise, to reopen a short section of line, and live with in your means, mothball the rest of the line, pending track renewal and getting the PW sorted, re open in stages, and look at developing your attraction .
     
  11. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    Was not the information wrt the Honourable Member for Bridgwater in the Public Domain ?

    Consistency please.

    Michael Rowe
     
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  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Individuals can speak for themselves, if they choose. However, in my experience I have tended to find that any people with real insights and the ability to affect change in a productive and collaborative manner over issues are those who do so behind the scenes and definitely not by spouting their apparent authority and opinion on social media.

    I genuinely have no particular post or person in mind as I type this. I definitely have no personal knowledge but I am really beginning to wonder exactly what good is being done on here by those who continue to try and use this thread for non-operational WSR matters. In fact, by raising stuff that seems to have very little to do with the Railway at all.
     
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  13. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with that. The thread has been hijacked by a handful of folk most with no apparent direct connection with or meaningful contribution to the WSR but with an overload of under informed opinion.
     
  14. Anne C-B

    Anne C-B Member

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    I think this forum has lost sight of what's important.

    What is most important is that the PLC and support organisations survive into the 2021 season.

    I agree that the structure of the railway needs amendments but that is unimportant for now. At the moment the only thing we should be concerned about is survival and everything else pales in comparison. This is not the time for distractions.

    At the moment our sole efforts should be to support the existing organisations in their quest for survival and leave the rest until the time is correct.
     
  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think the problem is that some folk genuinely believe that on its current course the railway simply will not survive, as it'll be unable to attract the required support due to its bad behaviour.
    The structural change required isn't just a nicety to correct a few anomalies on paper, in my view it's integral to the survival of the railway. Now it may be that the WSR *can* get through this period on its current course and it can get away with putting off change until a little bit later. But that in itself is a risk.
     
  16. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of apologists as well,
     
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Anne,

    Firstly, in many respects and at almost any other times, spot on.

    The difficulty however is what has been identified as the threats to the railway that need to be be addressed in these difficult times.
     
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  18. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    >>>At the moment our sole efforts should be to support the existing organisations in their quest for survival and leave the rest until the time is correct.....

    Should that include organisations such as the DEPG and S&DRT - if not, then why not? And if it does, then surely 'support' for the S&DRT must include dealing with this ridiculous situation of the Plc spending valuable time, effort and (most important of all) money trying to evict them from Washford, in the process of which it is losing good-will and support from many volunteers.
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sorry, had to have an ironic eye roll at this one, considering for many of us, the sum total of info on which to form any opinion has appeared on this very thread.

    Beyond a sense of deep sadness at how it affects perceptions of the WSR, both sides need their bl--dy heads banging together to understand that many of us unconnected with either feel that who's at fault here is increasingly of less importance than the damage such wantonly destructive behaviour is doing to the reputation of this very fine railway and the dreadful effect it must all be having on the dedicated army of volunteers who work long and for love alone to keep the line alive.
     
  20. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    The problem with those calling for support for the plc/jjp to get through the current covid crisis and that any reforms required can be put on the long finger is, that, if the plc survives, then jjp will be seen as the saviour of the line and that obviously everything he did was correct. You only have to look at a certain Facebook page (with some posters from here) to see the fawning over jjp, the total belief that he can do no wrong and that the £800k loss to a £300k profit should be believed without question. Those who disagree are removed from the group. Sound familiar? In fact, now that I think of it, certain aspects of the WSR remind me of the Sn******ch debacle

    As others have said, now would be a very good time to completely overhaul the support organisations and the control/structure of the plc. (maybe even a relaunched fund raiser for the new look WSR?). It would also be a good time to look at what else could be changed to make the railway more financially viable. Hard questions like do we need to run trains over the whole line, should we own rolling stock or lease it, what locos that might be available are capable of pulling our trains while doing the least damage to the track/infrastructure. Basically start from a blank piece of paper and take all the best bits/lessons learned from other railways.

    Keith
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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