Those cut at Woodham's...

Hello Ian

 

Exactly - those who regard him as a saint should reflect on this simple fact.

 

Actually, Woodhams ceased their normal breaking up of locos in 1965, they did not sell their first loco until 1968, when 43924 left for the KWVR in September of that year.

I wouldn't honestly think that they kept the locos in the yard from 1965 onwards in the hope that one day BR would permit them to resell the locos onwards for preservation. It was physically much harder work, and more labour intensive, to break a steam loco compared to breaking up rolling stock.

 

He did state several times that they didn't make any profit from the sale of the engines, though I find that hard to believe! On the earlier sales perhaps.

The fact is that the engines were saved by a load of wagons, rather than any fantastical preservation vision on the part of Dai. I'm surprised people still think otherwise - if he was simply out to make money from preservation, he certainly didn't go about it in the best way.

 

Whilst sad to see anything gassed I think history will record that the diesels cut were actually the most significant losses to railway history. Much as I love Bulleids I suspect that a pool of spares from the scrappers for less survivors may have been the better option in the long run. Ditto all the Gasworks stuff. The amounts spent on transport alone would probably have been better spent on existing projects.

That's the touchpaper lit...

 

The last thing preservation wants is yet another Bulleid ......... those 94xx's and Prairie Tanks gassed in 1965 would have been really useful though

 

All independent scrap yards in steam days had the agreement with BRB that locomotives were tendered for the weight of the ferrous metal scrap; the non-ferrous (read copper fireboxes) were to be returned to BR as they were to be turned into overhead wires for the forthcoming electrification schemes.

Payment for the locomotive was only made when cutting commenced, the sale to preservationist caused problems as technically the scrapman didn’t own the firebox. Woodhams finally renegotiated this clause in the mid 1970’s. Therefore Woodhams didn’t actually pay for his locos until the late 1970’s, in that sence it made no difference to Woodhams Bros if they ‘kept the loco’s for a raining day’ or not.

Dai Woodham and his company although doing a wonderful service for the railway heritage industry were no saints and merely businessmen making a living.

Saying that it would be nice to have still 80067 for the Mid Hants, I know the Swangage would have loved 41248 or 41303... you could always use another LSWR S15 30512... or at a push another Maunsell version 30844.... and those 9F's 92085 92232 would look perfect a Midsomer Norton .

Its funny too that if you review those Barry locomotives that did get cut and those which did survive The Eastern have a 100% survival rate, only 4 BR Standard machines out of 44 (9% cut) Southern 4 out of 45 (9% cut) Midland 2 out of 37 (5.5%) Western 65 out of 163 (40%)

 

The only reasons why more western locos were scraped than any other region was due to the fact that the western region had finish with steam before most of the other regions on BR had finished with steam. The other reason is the location of Barry to places like Swindon. It’s a big shame that there weren’t more LNER locos sent to Barry.

 

I visited many scrapyards both in South Wales, Lancashire and Yorkshire in the 60s and never did I see copper fireboxes being set aside and returned to BR.

Would like to see a written reference to that statement.

Cheers

 

I doubt that I have the magazine now, but I remember seeing a photo in, probably, Railway Magazine at the time showing the remains of several Bulleids standing in a row. The remains consisted of the fireboxes, inner and outer, standing on the cut off rear frames, trailing coupled wheels and truck. I'm sure it did say that the fireboxes were to be returned to BR. I remember this as, although I'm not a Southern enthusiast, the main subject was Barnstaple, the original of the Hornby Dublo model (I would then have been about 15!).

I wonder if they realised that the fireboxes were steel?

 

That particular policy lapsed around the middle of 1965. It was, as someone else has pointed out, in order to provide copper for the West Coast Electrification. One of the main factors behind 46243 failing to survive, and as I understand it also 30902 which was under negotiation at Kettering for some considerable time.

Cashmores had several Duchesses in their yard around the Xmas holiday period 1964/5 and there were strenuous efforts to try and save one. But according to someone who was there at the time, all that survived was the chimney off 46256. The firm got so fed up with it that they secured the site (it was more or less open house up to that point) and they refused to discuss anything with enthusiasts. Previously they would sell all sorts of items like plates, but Derby threatened them with cessation of sales and they took it seriously. I suppose much the same thing must have happened at Wigan and Kettering.

I've seen it mentioned in writing somewhere before, but goodness knows where. It might be worth trying the steam for scrap series. I do wonder how you would know whether a firebox was going to Derby though. Most of the scrapyards I know of used to take the fireboxes to another area and pull out the non copper stays before sending/selling them on. Most of them went to Birmingham Battery Co in the latter days, although some went abroad.

 

http://nick301.photos.us.com/p39572038.html

I took this photo in Barry around 1975. Being stupid I didn't note the numbers of the D6XX diesel or the Bulleid pacific in the photo, which looks to me like a WC/BB, and the negative doesn't reveal the details. Note that they are positioned a little distance away from the main rows of locos, and the hinges of the smokebox door have been painted white. Can anyone suggest which locos these were?

 

Apart from being easier to dismantle, I presume that all those wagons would have taken up a lot of siding space for comparatively less scrap value than a loco, so it would have been essential to keep clearing them first.

 

The Diesel is D601. Behind it was D6122. You have some of your numbers wrong. 34017 and 34087 were both rebuilt and neither went to Barry. The two unrebuilts look like 34073 and 34067 to me, though I wouldn't guarantee it.

 

Thanks for the help. I shall look at my photo of "34017 and 34087" more closely and update my site. Regarding the BB/WC in the shot next to D601, do you know its identity?

 

I updated my Fotopic site. The first unrebuilt BB is 34073 (the jpeg filename includes this, so I am obviously still stupid 30 years later!). Not so sure about 34067; On the jpeg the 7 is clear but the 6 isn't. So by process of elimination can anyone say which possible 340*7 was there at Barry?

 

The only other unrebuilt 340*7 at Barry was Wadebridge, number 34007. However the scar on the cladding looks more like the shape of a squadron crest than a town crest, pointing towards 34067.

 

Yes, the scar is on 340*7 is quite distinct. As both 34007 and 34067 are still with us I shall do some detective work.

 

Could the Bulleid with the damage on the side cladding be 34073. If you read the Barry scrap yard book by Roger Hardingham there is a photo of 34073 on the front cover with a large gaping hole in her cladding.

 

Hmm, looking at it again I'm not as sure, appears maybe a bit low for a BB nameplate/crest. Maybe I should just keep my nose out of it...!