If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

S&D Railway Trust

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    658
    I suppose they will sell more of the family silver...:)
     
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What's left to sell?
     
    Greenway likes this.
  3. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    658
    There is a nice turntable at Minehead..... it would be nice if Network Rail renationalized it and fitted it at Aberystwyth or Pwllheli as part of the Cambrian 'upgrade'.;)
     
    Dunfanaghy Road likes this.
  4. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    497
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    They've hocked the lot haven't they?
     
  5. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Which may explain the quest to get hold of the freehold!
     
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Fixtures and fittings, machine shop tools, rail for scrap value, engines the PLC owns, that are not already on finance,
    Pratt's little temper tantrum could work out very expensive for the WSR, In seeking to remove the S&DRT from the railway, He very well might be setting in motion forces he will have no control over, that instead of merely removing the Cuckoo, as he sees the trust, it removes the entire nest, and everything the railway has. The S&DRT, will eventually set up elsewhere, but what of the WSR , Only the members that are left, struggling to save what can be saved , then looking round with vengeful eyes on those who brought this on them,
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I hope/suspect that once the trust have a new home (if it comes to that) offers of physical and financial help would be forthcoming . On the other hand the day the site is cleared and the trust hand back the keys will quite possibly be a body blow to the WSR that will live a very long time

    what I don't get is how the acolytes of the current regime can accept / support this, in preservation terms it is quite a heinous act. locking yourself behind the doors of a happy clappy friends group where anything controversial is ignored/spun is not the solution . There are two members of this forum who I would hope privately , because of their closeness to the perpetrator are giving wise counsel in the hope the situation can be resolved
     
    Squiffy, Swan Age, MattA and 4 others like this.
  8. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    just had salvage hunters in to try and help the bottom line . it is a leading and dangerous question but if you had donated items to the WSR and found them sold on tele what would you think ....
     
    BrightonBaltic likes this.
  9. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,784
    Likes Received:
    658
    Personally I would be bl**dy annoyed. No doubt when the progamme is aired, we will find out what gems were flogged off by Pratt at a bargain price to be sold for a huge fortune by Drew Pritchard.
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,432
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Was I the only one to detect the slightly worrying irony of the 100 tons of iron and steel chosen to sit in the background of the publicity photo used?

    Tom
     
    BrightonBaltic, ghost, MattA and 4 others like this.
  11. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    2,968
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, ex-RAF
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I worked for a company that was put into Administration. It was an engineering company and a lot of the workers had their own, very expensive tool kits. When the Administrators took over, everyone who was on site at the time was sent home with literally five minutes notice to remove all their personal possessions.

    Those who weren't on site e.g. holiday sickness, had to subsequently prove ownership of their possessions before the Administrators would release the items from the site - that included material supplied to the company that hadn't yet been paid for.

    Otherwise all material, tools, furnishings within the site were to be brigaded and auctioned off to service the company's debts...after the Administrators had taken their cut of course.

    So my words of advice to the good people at Washford would be to make sure you have documentary proof of ownership for every item in your possession. Administrators aren't sentimental about history, they just want the money!!

    I would think twice before making any more donations. One wonders if he could prove ownership and authority to dispose of the items concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Err no! I picked up on that one as well!
     
  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Unfortunately, those two members of the forum, will have to answer one day for their actions in enabling the present chairman to do the damage he has done, Had they been more careful, in their deliberations, and done more checking into the suitability of the present chair, to become chairman, this whole mess might never have happened, 53808 would not be leaving, the S&DRT would not be looking for a new home, and former active members of the railway not thrown out for questioning policy .
     
  14. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ....................and, most likely, healthy donations to help the line out if its financial distress.
     
    green five and baldbof like this.
  15. John Palmer

    John Palmer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    678
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wasn't able to attend the S&DRT's online AGM last Saturday, so I don't know what the membership was then told about the WSR plc's efforts to oust the Trust from Washford. However, since @summerof67 is a director of the Trust it does appear that its board has now formed the intention of vacating the Washford site.

    The Trust's board may have come to the conclusion that relations with the WSR have become so toxic that it will be in the Trust's best interest to leave Washford, even though such a move is likely to be a source of substantial expense. If that's the board's considered conclusion then, as a recently re-joined member of the Trust, I will support their decision to move and hope I can make some contribution towards the arrangements for doing so.

    I also hope, however, that the Trust's board are under no misapprehensions about the effect of the WSR plc's notice to quit and notice of termination (the two are distinct), and that they have had the benefit of appropriate advice before reaching their decision. From what I have seen of the legal arrangements under which the Trust occupy the Washford site, the notice to quit was, in law, ineffective because the plc had no right to serve such a notice unilaterally other than for breach of the Trust's obligations as tenant (and the plc do not claim to rely on any such breach).

    If the notice to quit was ineffective then the lease as extended continues as before until its due expiry date. In that case, the plc's Notice of Termination under Part II of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1954 is similarly of no effect because it can only be given lawfully not less than 6 nor more than 12 months before the expiry date of the lease. That would mean that no termination notice under the 1954 Act could lawfully be given before 1st May 2069.

    The S&DRT has put a lot of work into the Washford site during the 45 year period of its occupation, and the lease extension granted by the plc in 2018 secured for the Trust for an additional 50 year period the infrastructure investment it had made in the site. That investment and the extended lease that underpins it together constitute a significant asset in the Trust's hands. It is one having a value the S&DRT trustees have a duty to preserve and protect unless the overall best interests of the Trust are such that they will still be fulfilling their fiduciary duty if they allow it to slip from their grasp.

    If the S&DRT's board has indeed decided that the Trust will vacate Washford on the basis that the extended lease has been terminated, they may have done so due to considerations unknown to me – on the West Somerset thread I was told by John Bailey that I had made flawed assumptions about the lease extension agreement he felt unable to divulge. The fact remains that in 2018 the WSR plc freely entered into a fresh contract with the S&DRT under which it granted to the Trust a right to remain at Washford until 2070. Whatever the legal minutiae, that was the arrangement to which the plc then committed itself, and from which it has now withdrawn, apparently to the severe financial detriment of the Trust. It's for that reason that I hope that the S&DRT Trustees have carefully considered the course of action on which they now embark with the full benefit of appropriate professional advice.
     
  16. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It rather reminds me of tales from places such as Stalin's Russia or Jing Jing Ping's hard line China where the first party member to stop clapping would be taken out and never heard of again.
     
  17. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2020
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm sorry I can't be more specific but, yes, the assumption that both parties entered into a valid and enforceable 50 year Lease is one that I still believe is flawed. I don't think its reasonable to describe as "legal minutiae" specific provisions of the Law of Property Act 1925. They are actually fundamental as to whether the fact you say remains ever existed at all.
    In my role as facilitator I have avoided giving legal advice to either party. It is for them to check whether my concerns are correct and I believe that , as you suggest, appropriate legal advice has been taken. I'm in no doubt that the Sand D Trustees are fully aware of their fiduciary and other duties and will act accordingly.
     
  18. Roger Thompson

    Roger Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    1,894
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Warwickshire, formerly Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    To me, the possibility that there may be a legal flaw which may make the 50 year lease unenforceable is irrelevant. There is no doubt that when it was signed both parties intended it to last for 50 years, otherwise why would they have signed it? It is inexcusable that, only 2 years later, under a new chairman, WSR PLC are seeking to tear up this agreement because it seems that SDRT won't, or can't. agree to the new chairman's request to cough up some cash.
    The use of this legal nicety, if there is one, to evict a long term tenant who is well respected in railway preservation circles has no place in the heritage railway field. This sort of tactic may be suitable for minor bus companies, or haulage companies who can carelessly mislay expensive trailers, but its use by WSR PLC in attempting to evict a fellow railway preservation group after 40 years of friendly cooperation is, frankly, despicable, and reflects extremely badly on WSR PLC and the people currently in charge.

    Sent from my SM-T590 using Tapatalk
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I fully agree. I also, and acknowledging the intent behind the work done by @Lineisclear in connection with this, struggle with the idea that the plc's grotesquely bad behaviour in seeking to evict the SDRT on the ground stated at the time should be rewarded by the role of the HRA involvement identifying a loophole to the disbenefit of the SDRT.
     
    BrightonBaltic, Piggy and Sunnieboy like this.
  20. John Palmer

    John Palmer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    678
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm grateful for the indication that you have avoided giving legal advice to the parties; I take it from what you say that you agree it would have been entirely inappropriate for you to do so in your role as facilitator.

    I can hazard a guess at what you mean by your reference to the Law of Property Act 1925, but in the absence of any details of the specific provisions of that Act you have in mind or the reasons you think them fundamental to whatever took place in 2018 it serves no useful purpose for me to speculate further about their relevance.

    Edition 289 of the Trust's magazine 'Pines Express' carries a report under the headline “Trust signs new 50 year lease with WSR PLC” a report that “At our AGM on 21 April, we were delighted to welcome Ian Coleby, Chairman of WSR PLC and to have the new lease jointly signed by Mr Coleby and our Chairman, Ian Young.” It seems abundantly clear to me that the Trust's membership was given the clear impression that the effect of that signing was to secure for the Trust the right to remain in leasehold occupation of the Washford site for a further 50 years, and that the WSR plc was entirely at liberty to grant it such a right and content to do so.

    I imagine that the membership of the Trust who saw that article would be astonished and alarmed by the suggestion apparently now being made that the signing of that document in 2018 accomplished no such thing. If that is indeed the suggestion you are making then, even if some technical legal flaw were to invalidate the extension to the lease that the WSR plc then purported to grant (and I certainly don't concede that such is the case), it seems to me that such a conclusion simply puts the plc into a different container of legal hot water.
     

Share This Page