Churnet Valley Railway General Discussion

1. Trams cannot share the same tracks as heavy rail trains because they are not as crash worthy.
2. There is nowhere else any passenger would want to travel to.
3. 1.

 

I thought there was more to Stoke than the station. As for your answers to 1 & 3, you may want to look at the north east or Rotherham for examples of mixed running, or indeed Karlsruhe.


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Yes there is more to Stoke on Trent but the tram would have to go to Stoke because that is where the railway goes to, it cannot go to Hanley or Newcastle because of the steep hills and I cannot think of any streets around Stoke that could be used for a tram that is are not jammed with traffic so what is the point of a tram? The south yorkshire tram runs off dc but that cannot be used in Stoke so any design would have to be a novel dual voltage design. All tram schemes are used in large metropolitan areas and are designed to radiate out in different directions like a hub which is not possible on a single line rural railway. I think these MPs have thought of light rail because they somehow think it is its just like a little bus that tootles along the rails and is the cheapest option but it isn't - they have gone to the de lux model. I would be far cheaper to use tried an tested heavy rail technology that actually works and not some costly experiment that has not been used anywhere else. The problem with a tram train is that they run in town centres but unfortunately the Leek line doesn't go anywhere near to Leek so although park and ride maybe ok for a train station i have never heard of people driving to a tram stop.

 

Where does any of those schemes have heavy freight and tramways running on exactly the same running lines? If it wasn't for COVID, Network Rail would be working on re-opening some of the sidings around Fenton to ease the pressure on the Pinnox Branch. Also as Martin has pointed out, a tram system needs a tram depot - where is there space to build such alongside the Stoke/Leek Line?

The Karlsruhe Model has been quoted numerous times over the years for that line, and each time the practicalities have shown the idea to be non-viable. What has changed since?

I do disagree on point 2 however, there would be more punters if there was a connection to Hanely. The Knotty Loop Line would be an ideal tramway if in place today, but sadly it will cost too much money to be implemented in today's world.

 

It may be possible to somehow thread a tram line from Etruria ato Hanley but the planners over the years have put lots of very expensive obstacles in the way but the proble remains the 25kV, i would have thought any tram that could run off that would have be a pretty chunky piece of kit and if these trams are built bespoke just for Stoke on Trent then i would have thought they wouldn't come cheap.

 

If using that route, be far easier to just have an interchange for the mainline and tram at Etruria - keeping the two systems separate. Shame they closed Etruria though...

 

I'm not arguing for a tram and if Karlsruhe's been discussed and rejected already; merely that I think @Martin Adalar overstates the case for it being impossible to have them on shared infrastructure. As for shared use, both Rotherham and (especially) Tyne and Wear involve sharing with the full range of heavy rail traffic up to and including heavy freight.

 

Sounds like the CVR could do with some DMUs... now I wonder what became of those 104s that were once there?

 

The Sheffield ones are dual voltage - 750V DC/25KV AC....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_399
The biggest problem is likely to be the time that it takes to introduce anything like that here, unlike other countries where they just get on with it!

The Kalrsruhe ones even run under semaphore signalling....

 

The 50437/50494 unit is now operating at the East Lancs Railway, repainted into BR blue.

 

Really?

CVR priority is to serve the line between Leekbrook and Froghall, (and the planned extensions to Leek & Moneystone) plus the Cauldon branch - as those are the lines we control. Also they are far more scenic than going through the suburbs of Stoke...

Diesel haulage doesn't bring in the masses like steam does, and so our steam fleet is more than sufficient with 2x S160s plus the TKH, and then the 4F + 8F waiting in the wings. Not sure where the "need" for a DMU fits in with that...

 

It would seem that, although there is a noticeable overlap between the two, the CVR and the project to get trains between Leek and Stoke are indeed separate?

 

Stance always has been that the CVR focus is re-opening to Leek, and operating along the former Churnet Valley Line along plus the added bonus of the Cauldon Line.

Stoke it's been stated if the opportunity to run specials is available then we would do so, but it is not a primary concern. All the talk recently has been about reconnecting the mainline to Leek, not connecting the CVR to Stoke. CVR co-operation will be required whatever happens mind, as they hold the lease for both Leek Brook Junction area (from NR) and the Leek extension (from the Council).

 

There will soon be high-floor, 25kv/battery tram-trains in South Wales too.

 

Back to the more mundane - after last week the other rail was moved into position on Sunday and today's task was to get the chairs screwed to the sleepers and rail seated and keyed in the chairs. That entailed a good bit of leveling of the sleepers. The switch and first panel have now been all done by hand. We hope for some big mechanical assistance for the next 8 panels. Third picture could well be for a caption competition.

 

I didn't know they were dual voltage so thats one hurdle overcome but i will be very suprised indeed if the government spend scores of millions of pounds on a tram train for a country branchine, light rail is only ever used in and around big cities as part of a network; having said that if it was light rail it might be possible to have a tram stop in Morrisons car park where the original station used to be although the SMDC want to sever the railway with a new road.

 

Hmmm, it's a while since I last looked at the plans for Cornhill and Barnfields but I thought, so I could be wrong, that the new road would cross the trackbed on a bridge, just to the north of the new station.

 

And on that I completely agree - it would be out of character for Whitehall to fund a light rail project for a branch to a rural town like Leek. But I wouldn’t go from that - and the distraction such a proposal causes - to saying it can’t be done and can’t work.


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Its a long time since i saw the plan as well but i would have thought that if they did put a bridge in there it would likely only be wide enough for the proposed footpath as i have not seen any proposals to run either trains or trams to the original station site.

 

Well given that these tram trains are dual voltage it certainly sounds techically possible but on the balance of probability...?