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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. granmaree

    granmaree Member

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    Females absolutely do! My sister-in-law's have said for years they check the floor before the pan, see what they are planting their feet on before parking the posterior
     
  2. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Indeed. That's one reason why, when I stop for lunch at a pub while taking a long walk in the country, whilst taking care to wipe off as much mud from my boots as possible before going inside, I will not comply with any requests to take them off and leave them in the porch - at least they are waterproof :)
     
  3. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Forceful yes. absolutist no.

    Returning to the WSR, it was not just successive internecine squabbles which brought about its present predicament. Maintaining a line of its length in a state as to cope with the equipment it chose to operate required an income it proved unable to sustain.

    That is the essential situation. How it is dealt with is open to discussion.
     
  4. Another Yorkshireman

    Another Yorkshireman Member Friend

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    From time to time correspondents - well, one in particular, suggest the salvation of the WSR would be to halve its length. The latest argument for doing this seems to be that you can then remove the toilets from the trains ? [Presumably the correspondent does not have children in mind.] On this subject, by the by, I could comment that whenever a train arrives at Minehead, the queue for the ladies is well out onto the platform. I think this is a general lack of enthusiasm that ladies have for using moving toilets- and not a reflection on the WSR facilities.

    Back to the main cut-the-line-in half idea. Which half to keep?
    The nature of the WSR is to have several categories of clientelle. And lets face the fact that most are not steam enthusiast rivet counters- they just like a nostalgic ride behind a steam engine - any steam engine- to a nice place.
    I am not privy to official numbers, but just by experience, talking to people, and observation I can suggest the following.
    The main clientelle, [maybe around 50% of total] are day trippers, for whom the obvious starting point is Bishops Lydeard, and I guess most ride through to Minehead. In the summer there are frequent reports of passengers trying to join a westbound train at Watchet who struggle to find a seat as very few are being freed up by people alighting. They have two to four hours in Minehead and go back. They may break journey in Watchet, particularly if they feel they have 'done' Minehead by 2pm. This patronage is susceptible to the weather- a bad forecast means turn-up-and-go numbers at BL can drop dramatically as people decide to wait for a nicer day.
    Some of these day trippers will be from nearby cities such as Bristol and Exeter, others may be staying somewhere in Somerset, Dorset, or Devon. Just guessing. Would they still make the effort if the line started or finished at Williton or Watchet? [With the extra driving and minimal car parking available.]
    Secondary clientelle, maybe around 30%, start from Minehead. I suspect most are staying locally [Butlins, guests houses, self catering] within the catchment area, which can include Dulverton, Porlock and Lynmouth. I would estimate that over half of these passengers do the full round trip, enjoy exploring Bishops Lydeard station and the Gauge Museum, then set off back and may journey break at Watchet. Some may spend longer in BL where the local water mill is of interest, and pub lunches are available.
    I believe wet weather can result in an increase in passengers at Minehead, as a day on the beach or Exmoor has lost its attraction, and on such days I believe takings at Minehead can exceed those from BL. In some ways the loss of takings at BL is thus compensated by an upturn at Minehead. The morning departures from Minehead tend to be people who know the WSR is there, have planned accordingly, and ride the full line. The after lunch departures from Minehead are, I suggest, often people staying locally who had never heard of the WSR but have discovered its presence on arrival. They are seeking 'a ride on a steam train' and many do the return to Watchet, some just spending 20 minutes at the station and returning straight away. I have no idea how many start journeys from BL after lunch but I suspect very few by comparison.
    The remaining 20% I suggest would be mainly passengers starting their journeys from other stations, particularly Watchet or Blue Anchor and heading for Minehead. They will largely be people who are staying locally.
    I suspect that halving the line so it is only Minehead to Williton would reduce the core day trip - business dramatically.
    My conclusion- cutting in half risks cutting half the passenger numbers too, and most paying lower fares than they do now.
    Finally - if you only run Minehead to Watchet/Williton, are you proposing ripping up the line further south and doing away with the main line connection? Or handing over maintenance and operation to Network Rail perhaps. Would they want it?
    Running only BL to Williton removes both of the main tourist targets from the package. Running beyond Williton to Watchet still removes the main tourist target and requires a new passing loop [where?] or as someone has suggested, top and tailing - hardly a way to save money besides needing two loco crews I imagine. [Or run the DMU - how popular would that be?] Will this attract enough punters from Bristol and Exeter?

    My view, it has to be all or nothing.
     
  5. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Stands a real risk of being nothing then, which would be sad.
     
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  6. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Paul when in a hole, stop digging, sometimes you make some good points that I agree with, other times I think ‘what a prat’ guess what I’m leaning to at this moment in time?
     
  7. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    The IOWR is lovely, but its a 'visit' no more, like the IOW Pearl facility or Alum Bay. That is true of all the smaller heritage railways. The longer railways, like the NYMR, the Fessssstiniogggg et al offer multiple journey possibilities and so can be the basis of several days' visit. In WSR terms that was why I worked hard to convince itscommercial department to support the 7-day 'Freedom of the line' ticket. Among the odd decisions made by present WSR management was to raise the price of the FoL ticket unreasonably in the last year and so largely kill off that trade. Hopefully wiser counsel will prevail as things get back to normal.

    Robin
     
  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The ancien regime Bourbons were less absolutist than you on the definition what good looks like.

    As it happens, I agree with you about the commercial issues facing the railway. But that is in the sense that I regard Mr Micawber as a business sage, not that it tells us anything useful about how the WSR can be made into and kept as a sustainable business.

    Other posters have commented on the fundamental nature of the railway. I agree with them; if I had to go to Williton or Watchet to join the train to Minehead, I might well go on elsewhere, not stop. It is a fundamentally different proposition than that of the IoW, or WLLR, or Tanfield. Neither better nor worse, just different.

    That does result in different challenges for the WSR, which have been commented on at length before. But the issues the WSR faces are not because of its length, and could IMHO have been equally serious if it were a fraction of its length. They are issues to do with people, the decisions they’ve made, and the organisation structures that they have worked within.

    I disagree with @Sidmouth on whether I will miss the WSR should it fail; unlike him, I have fond memories of it and have a real affection for the Minehead branch. But it is for the WSR, it’s members and it’s leaders to decide how they wish to proceed in the face of those challenges. But amputation is a strange remedy for a disease of the mind and emotions.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    It was said of the Bourbons that they learned nothing and forgot nothing. There is an echo of the same thing about the WSR. Like or loathe the present management they inherited a serious situation from their predecessors. Measures were needed but, predictably. these produced resentment. Some of the things done do seem rather questionable but I fear it would have made little difference had they been put forward by King Solomon. Especially if a reduction in track mileage were involved.

    Somehow, the WSR has to put more money into track repairs whilst, also reducing costs. Not easy. They can learn a lot from the Ffestiniog Railway who have made best use of stock suitable for "social distancing" by halving the distance operated and thus increasing the number of return services which can be offered.
     
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  10. billbedford

    billbedford Member Friend

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    think i am leaning further than you with our resident "billy no mates"
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Since the SVR has come up a few times in the broader discussion I've just been reading the excellent SVR branch lines edited by our own @D1039

    The difference to the WSR is stark

    August trains 85% full with many sold out , September increases flexibility with single tickets available , Modern traction fridays , Sunset trains , dining at the engine house (not just for engines) . A move to partner with other local suppliers and then planning for the Autumn with ghost trains, along with the Christmas trains and train in lights .

    Now if this was in isolation Icould understand but most heritage lines seem to have passenger results that vindicate reopening
     
  12. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    As I posted earlier a cracking full day out on SVR, different to the past but going from Bridgnorth we managed to spend a little while at Kiddiminster to have lunch, long enough at Bewdley to have a quick look around, a visit to Engine shed at Highley which we have often missed out on previously and good value as well. Lots of enthusiasm at SVR to be running, shops quite busy also.
     
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  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, that was said of the Bourbons and there are parallels with both the WSR and, dare I suggest, your emphasis on line length. The example of the Ffestiniog is just one such - reflecting something important about their passenger base, access, route and destinations - factors you disregard in your single minded focus.
     
  14. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    I didn't make any negative remarks about the SVR. I stated facts. Their early 00s leaflets only showed times of trains from termini and Bewdley. The Engine House was built to house the out of use locomotives, some were in a bad state externally such as 43106 and 7819 which wouldn't have been attractive to visitors. An Engine House on the WSR would be pretty useless and not worth the cost of construction, as locomotives there are either in service or under overhaul.

    The WSR and SDR are in similar situations, but nobody is kicking off about trains not running to Totnes.
     
  15. WishIHadAName

    WishIHadAName New Member

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    Maybe the SDR is better thought of by the people on here than the WSR.
     
  16. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Words placed in my mouth again I am afraid. These factors are in no way to be ignored, any more than the costs incurred by too much mileage.
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Do you mean the glossy timetable with the John Austin paintings or the cheap paper one?
     
  18. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    That's right, having a facility like the Engine House means visitors don't arrive at a station and see sad, unkempt sights like this photo I took a few years ago

    2020-08-31_05-17-34.jpg

    But as people have pointed out, the Engine House doesn't just do that. It provides a break-of-journey attraction, a restaurant (which seems to have been getting better and better recently if the photos of cakes on social media are anything to go by), educational facilities, an event space for everything from model railway shows to food festivals, a playground, shop space... the list goes on. And as someone has already pointed out, in September it's being used for Saturday evening dining services.

    If you think the above would be useless at the WSR...well, maybe you're right. But you're factually wrong if you think "undercover storage" is all it is for
     
  19. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't be the first time, like when a moderator said Steve Edge's site was a waste of time.
     
  20. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Flippin heck. I literally said I can only recall 7820 & 4561 being on display. Okay maybe 4110 as well. 7821 at a push you could say for a period. So no more than 3 at any one time, and as has been pointed out on here the WSR doesn't have much of a permanent homefleet.

    However now locomotives on display awaiting overhaul? 0.

    Not that a locomotive cannot be left out on view appealing for funds anyway, if that's the best option in various circumstances.

    The SVR on the other hand is home to approx 25 locomotives so there is always going to be engines awaiting their turn for overhaul. Even the Engine House isn't big enough as locos are often in storage at Kidderminster carriage shed and 5164 has been at Barrow Hill a number of years now. Which stresses the need why understorage cover had to be built.

    There just simply isn't the requirement on the WSR for that.

    The WSR doesn't need a break of journey attraction half way cause it has a destination in Watchet.

    The Minehead turntable project provided the railway with a cafe. There is a model railway display in Bishops Lydeard. Minehead station often has beer festivals and stalls etc.

    They are two different railways, they shouldn't be carbon copies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020

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