If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    The Potteries
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks for posting this link.

    I'm writing this before reading any of the many posts which follow as I don't want my thoughts swayed by what others might have said. So apologies if this repeats what others have said or think.

    First, I have to say I'm very disappointed by what I hoped would be an agreement on a way forward to a successful WSR. To me, all it says is that everyone wants a shared way forward, but no-one is prepared to spell out how this might be achieved.

    Second, whilst not putting forward a roadmap or outline plan, all t seems to focus on is denigrating other's efforts to achieve this. Indeed, all it seems to be, as far as I can see, is a concerted attack on the WSSRT's new Trustee candidates, with emotive language such as Trojan Horse. Reminds me of Cuckoos in the Nest...

    Thirdly, this paragraph...

    However, the high ideals and ambitions to which its proponents lay claim contrast starkly with the plan’s reality. It smacks of the manoeuvres more appropriate to the rough and tumble of the City. It eliminates the existing charities’ independence seeing it as acceptable collateral damage.

    strikes me as gross hypocrisy given the way the SDRT have been treated without so much as an acknowledgement or critisism of it's expulsion.

    Fourth, it simply seems to add legitimacy to extenal interference with the WSSRT's election process, by stating that the potential Trustee's stated intentions give the plc a legitimate interest in the proceedings. No, it doesn't. The only way the plc might be involved is indirectly, if, as a result of a shareholder's vote at a plc meeting, the current board lose one or more votes. The possibility of this (very normal) event occurring does not give them a right to pre-emptively undermine the elections of another body.

    Fifth, it glosses over the point made here earlier about who would actually stand for a new charity. Given the implied criticism in this report of many possible candidates, it's hard to see where a raft of new committed individuals might spring from.

    And finally, more ORR "threats". Yes, they have strong powers, and yes, the WSR undoubtedly have much to do to ensure they comply fully with ORR requirements, but to keep implying that any ORR action will be simply as a result of a group of concerned members trying to pull the WSR out of it's mess doesn't ring true to me.

    Anyway, I hope others found some positives in this Shared Vision message, because, God knows, the WSR need something positive right now.
     
  2. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The difficulty it seems to me is that it glosses over the collective failure of the WSR Management over many years, and the need to address the issues of Governance
     
  3. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    991
    Location:
    Waiting it out.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Why Now?


    The urgency for the three chairmen’s agreement is the recently announced plan by a group that is planning a confrontational “Trojan Horse” manoeuvre. It envisages encouraging like-minded cohorts to join the WSSRT so increasing the likelihood that the current Trustees can be overwhelmed and a merger with the WSRA can be forced through
    .

    Well, it looks like the possibility of new trustees For the WSSRT is seen as a major threat. I wonder why they are so worried....

    Worried enough to suddenly start showing signs of an agreement anyway.
     
  4. snappertim

    snappertim New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    472
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I find myself posting on this forum twice in as many weeks, which is not a wise decision not least because I shall be heavily criticised by many.

    Whilst I am somewhat puzzled that a "Confidential and restricted" statement is now widely available, I welcome it. This is one the basis of "A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step" because that is what it is . Hopefully a positive one with a neutral facilitator who now seems to have an affection for us in West Somerset. Careful Mr Bailey, we may covert you to GWR man!

    We are approaching AGM season for the PLC, WSRA & WSSRT. The next step I hope, and expect, the 3 chairs to gain the support of their fellow Trustees/Directors, in time for discussion and then hopefully support from their membership/shareholders.

    The devil, as always will be in the detail. As I have posted before, greater minds than me , need to ensure that whatever re-structure is proposed, maximises opportunities for tax relief, Gift Aid, inward investment, cohesion of purpose, and has the support of all stakeholders and well as the ORR.

    Make no mistake, the WSR is drinking in the last chance saloon, so we have to get it right first time. If it turns into a bar room brawl, that will be the end of WSR for sure.

    Will this take time ?- yes of course, but I would hope, and expect, that we can be given a timeline, which is realistic but challenging, to progress towards a final structure.
     
  5. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If I recall correctly JJP was the Only Show In Town and to the best of my knowledge still is!
     
  6. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ensuring there was sufficient money to pay the bills until the following season, possibly?
     
  7. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    But living way beyond its means?
     
  8. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    What a load of carefully contrived 'clap trap' from John Bailey today.

    The new trustees up for election for the WSSRT from it's own membership is well thought out and entirely reasonable and achieves an object (if the membership support their election) that circumvents a lot of issues that would otherwise be drawn out and inconclusive. I applaud the stance taken by the WSSRT members standing for election as trustees.

    Any semblance of impartiality that John Bailey ascribed to is now exposed for what it is!

    The first step in building bridges would, to my mind being John Bailey telling the WSR plc board that they ought to rescind the Notice to Quit over Washford - he suggested the SDRT should be given a temporary reprieve in his redacted sections of his report.

    Neither has actually taken place yet.
     
  9. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    and then there is something that we in business referred to as 'Creative Accounting'

    Until a Forensic Accountant has gone over the Accounts which none of us have seen we will never know!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    MellishR likes this.
  10. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Having had a further look at the document.........

    When @RailWest first mentioned its existence on HOPS it was 'Confidential and Restricted, I now see that it is on the PLC & WSSRT websites but not the WSRA website or WSR.org

    Is this in fact an unapproved draft or the final version?

    Given this has it in fact been signed by all those whose names appear at the bottom?

    I might add that I am rather disappointed that John Bailey has chosen to write this report, clearly he has an opinion on the best way forward, but as arbitrator, does he not have a duty to at least try and seem to be impartial, which writing this report clearly is not.
     
  11. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think the WSRA did fail - they undertook the responsibility and they raised £15,000 - big deal!

    The 4110 consortia said they had promises of the money originally required and they did that in record breaking time. They were then excluded and the WSRA invited to take up the poison chalice but that was doomed to failure from the outset. The question remains were they set up to fail or was it all in their own hands?

    Unfortunately this incident proves what is wrong with the WSR's ability to raise money through fund raising and is one of the most urgent aspects of this whole saga that must be addressed and very quickly.
     
    MellishR likes this.
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,485
    Likes Received:
    23,718
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So that was then. What was the donation at the time of the swearing incident?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  13. Piggy

    Piggy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    327
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    But if that show is 'The Dead Duck' who would want to buy tickets ..... ?
     
    The Dainton Banker and 35B like this.
  14. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    In January 2019 we had this very clever new WSR plc board do what?

    Sell off 4110.

    Get rid of 3 heads of departments. (Night of the long knives all over again)

    LMS 44422 25 year agreement terminated - that at a glance had a significant effect on the accounts - removing a present liability and a future liability requiring provision in the accounts.

    The SDRT ought to have taken note, especially as '88' then ran a very high mileage in 2019, and a very high number of steaming days. But the significant point is that '88's own provision was also significantly written down in the accounts.

    That does not require a genius at accountancy to see what was going on to 'cook the books '.
     
    Dennis John Brooks likes this.
  15. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It does indeed make interesting reading but what struck me was that JB seemed to be out of ideas of what to suggest on a way forward and appeared to have become a 'company' man!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,100
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm still struggling to understand the logic that says setting up an entirely new charity is preferred over merging the two existing charities. Taking that course seems to create a problem of having a new organisation that has to start from the ground running in attracting members and creating a structure for fundraising, while still leaving two existing charities with members, assets (including two locomotives and numerous carriages), shares in the plc and in one case having plc assets held as security for a loan. What are those charities to do then - far from simplifying the picture, you now have three charities all independent and competing for funds?

    The objective - which at least everyone is paying lip service to - seems to be for the operating company to become a wholly-owned subsidiary of the single membership charity. That means some method is required to compensate the current shareholders, of which the two existing charities are the largest. Forming an entirely new charity seems to leave the very real problem of how the Trustees of the WSRA and WSSRT can then demonstrate that they have protected the interests of their respective charities while having their shareholdings - which do after all have a considerable balance sheet value - entirely wiped out. Meanwhile, the thousands of members of the WSRA - who, after all, pay an annual subscription which represents a considerable annual inward investment into the railway family - get frozen out, and there is no guarantee that they would all inevitably join the new charity.

    I get the sense, yet again, that the Somerset answer to any problem is "let's form another member of the alphabet soup". Meanwhile, you are just as far as ever from any concept that the railway might be run according to the wishes of its members. It seems inevitable that by time all this comes to pass, the membership body would be far smaller than it is now, when on other railways, the members are valued and efforts are made to grow the membership base, who collectively represent a source of volunteers, donations, skills, ideas and oversight.

    Tom
     
  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And they could have done it better without the evictions, swearings, ridiculous press releases, loss of engines, damage to the reputation to the line (see Ghost's list for the 'what has the board actually done for the WSR)

    I get the sense that in Minehead, General Melchett, is considered to be a man of brilliance and someone to be copied.

     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well, it seems that you can't win in Somerset. Three independent and apparently warring organisations come together to issue a joint statement for a way forward and it is roundly condemned by the vociferous Nat Pres posters. It is early days and there is much still to do but it would be good for the Railway if people would get behind it for once. I despair and I'm sure that John Bailey does likewise.
     
  19. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    4,210
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    We were also told that the ORR had safety concerns at Washford.

    Just saying.............
     
    Barrie the Beer and Bluenosejohn like this.
  20. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    933
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Swindon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    More of the same sadly!
     

Share This Page