West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Well, there's a big shed at Washford that will soon be up for sale. Cheaper than building a new one.

 

However, the bigger fish have been discussed here until everyone is sick of the smell of their frying. Are you not grateful to be away from the fumes for a bit?

 

I pointed out, in my post 32075, that this discussion and planning for Seaway Crossing has been going on for years. I believe it is the WSR that has held up the work.

 

Three observations:

1. The focus you suggest requires a clear strategic plan across the WSR, which brings us back round to organisation.
2. The use of Shearings or Washford for "unsightly" purposes takes us back to questions of how the WSR organises it's holdings
3. Purely personally, one of the factors that makes a heritage railway "good" is whether it shows ambition beyond just running steam trains between two points. It's where, of the 10 mile+ railways, Bluebell and SVR stand out for their commitment to heritage in the round.

I'd say that the progress on those carriages are a pretty good illustration of the weaknesses in the WSR over a sustained period.

 

Which is the obvious conclusion to be drawn from the logically inconsistent position set out in that issue of Platform.

 

If not quite fiddling while Rome has burnt, they have spent too much time reenacting Julius Caesar Act 3 Scene 1, while the infrastructure and heritage has rotted away.

With the covid hit, the 'nice things' like covered storage and long term projects are going to take a massive hit.

Mentioning the Bluebell and the heritage carriages, another good example is the Ffestiniog but their heritage group which has been working on those projects has been going almost 35 years. It is a long term investment that is slow to demonstrate the rewards.

It is a good example of how those involved in the WSR have continually taken their eye off the ball. Like the burning of Rome, it is a symbol of the decline of the line. While the Bluebell, NYMR etc are advancing with covered storage, the WSR has an unreconstructed linear scrapyard.

 

When the Norton Triangle was finished there was - and is - income from the ballasting trains unloading. I think this must be variable with how much is brought in and what the demand is for the old screened stone and what is screened out.

I am not sure who exactly receives the money and I believe how it is handled has changed.

It would seem to me that a first call on the receipts should be to maintain the triangle so that they can continue to come - points and track in sound condition for really sizeable and heavy trains together with all the necessary for single line working ie between the token machine at Taunton station and Bishops Lydeard signal box.

Given the charges raised on the main line for any appreciable delay and kit like the ballast cleaning train must be tightly diagramed you don't want any reputation for there being any delay getting onto the West Somerset or out on time. Whether the delay is whatever: flakey cabling in wet weather, poor packing under jammed points, minor derailments - not acceptable like they once were.

 

On the subject of carriages.
It seems 21 years ago the SVR were miles ahead of the curve with Kidder carriage shed. Other railways had similar ie Oxenhope but none of the scale of Kidderminster. Whilst the carriage shed has slowed down the decay of the carriages. It wont stop the overhauls from being done.

The GWR coaches owned by the WSSRT are basket cases as has been described above. An example of of carriage restoration for me is 7511 on the SVR. An empty shell when restoration started. It took 10 years, 30 volunteers and about 75k - 90ks worth of work. The coaches are no lost but it might be time to rethink how many they want and consolidate spares and useable parts. Another SVR overhaul that is showing the way with the pre war carriages is 9615, Collett Bow end kitchen car. This has had the whole body frame work, bar 2 corner posts replaced in sapele/ utile as good quality seasoned oak is getting more difficult to come by in the quantities needed. The bottom stringer has been completely replaced the whole way around. The roof carlines have had the bottom 12-18 inches chopped out and replaced with new steel.

These large restorations are very achievable with the right mindset and of course enough money.
If they were my coaches. I would look at halving what I have and accepting the fact, like Big Al has said. You cannot save everything.

 

Do you have confidence in this board to have a long term vision to raise the money (and how) to build/maintain the infrastructure to protect and then restore items (and how)?

I tend to suspect that it will be more lurching from crisis to crisis. I think the narrative of 'saving the railway' means that there will be no long term vision. Or are we expecting the Chairman's "contacts" to suddenly come through and magic up a state of the art conservation and restoration area? Alongside these contacts, magically resolving all the other infrastructure issue.

There seems to be a lot of quasi-religious faith placed in the powers of the chairman and his contacts, with scant evidence to support many of the claims made for the board's achievements.

 

..... but, IMO, essential, nonetheless. Of course, having one (or more) of the involved parties indulging in perpetual civil war scarcely helps.

 

Suppose that the owners (WSSRT ?) of all the "tatty carriages", having re-assessed their project, decide with reluctance that realistically they should continue only with (say) half of them. What then happens to the unwanted half? Will any other group elsewhere have an interest in taking, or ultimately will they then have to be scrapped? Who will have the nerve to lit the bonfire?

A hard choice to make IMHO.

 

The problem though will be, that the PLC won't want to change, it has to be forces to change, For far to long, the names on the chairs may change, but the problems don't, they seem to just carry on, even with the best will in the world, everything is seemingly set up to fail, then the recriminations start over again, and so it continues,
IMHO. its going to take something very big to change the mind set, I don't doubt people love their Railway, and want it to survive, but only on their own terms, it would seem, and of course that makes it more likily not to survive.
Somehow, there has to be a parting of the ways, or an coming together , the burying of old hatchets, and not in each others backs, I remain convinced that the structure's, and personalities, need to change, to keep on doing the same thing, and expecting a different outcome, won't work,
As I see it, the charities need to be merged, so the members can influence the thinking of the PLC, and make the changes needed, if that can't happen, then only having a major failure such as the company going under, would clear the decks to enable a new start.

 

I think there are better solutions than scrapping. At the current pace, I'm not sure that making a decision on half of them will make much difference. It feels to me like it needs a different approach to get these coaches restored at all. Once you've worked out what that is, then is the time to reassess what's viable and what's not.

 

Whats missing is any kind of long term planning, and fund raising plan, to ensure that coaches such as these will restored at some point, both the WSRA, and the WSRRT both fall down on this point, How long has the Manor been in the museum now? and how much has been raised towards its next overhaul? the railway needs reorganising from top to bottom.

 

Yes this will be a very significant event in our future and I hope the plc are working towards being able satisfy that ambition.

The difficult bit is to come, plans are fine it is their execution which is the difficult bit!

 

For the zillionth time Martin, if the Plc goes under there is no guarantee there will be a railway left to rebuild!!!

As for the rest, well err, yeah. I think it may have all been said once or twice before...

 

According to the VCT survey there are 14 GWR carriages on the WSR (excluding the sleeper in the Gauge museum, Autotrailer 169 and the Inspection saloon).

As suggested by @Southernman99 I would think that keeping maybe 4 or 5 carriages to form a short train that 4561 could pull with 'exclusive' or 'luxury' marketing would be within the long term capabilities of the WSR. A carriage shed would still be required, but obviously would be cheaper as it would be covering fewer carriages.

Keeping so many 'basket cases' just adds to the 'linear scrapyard' impression for visitors and (at the minute) adds a hefty rent bill to the overall costs or the WSR.

Keith

 

Bear in mind that of the 14 GWR designed vehicles on the line, 3 are the camping coaches at BA and 1 is at BL which was in use as volunteer accommodation.

Of the vehicles that the WSSRT own, 4 are collett designed and 6 Toplight designs including the only Toplight CK in preservation. Some rare vehicles - I would hope that none are scrapped but something must be done to pick up the pace if there will ever be a vintage train at the WSR. The WSSRT need to remember that despite the PLC saying that they wish to see a train of 7 vehicles restored (mentioned in the trust business plan?), that doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of the other 3 is the best idea in my opinion. There needs to be some strategic spare vehicles in place in my opinion. Say they get rid of 3 vehicles and then find that a set of bogies for example on one of the remaining ones are shot, what to do then?

I would love to see the project progressing at a faster pace, as others have said other railways manage. I wonder if apprenticeship schemes have been considered by the Trust?

 

I completely agree. Like I said, the H&B Stock Fund is an interesting comparison, their progress for many decades was even slower than the WSSRT's, but a couple of new people joined the committee with some new ideas. Within a couple of years they've sent 2 of their carriages (1 bogie coach, 1 four wheeler) to Hull technical college where students are doing a lot of the work for free, only materials to be supplied/paid for, and there's huge amounts of enthusiasm on both sides. It feels like the WSR carriages need something similarly game-changing to make this project a reality.