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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Who stands to benefit if the status quo remains? or if the reformers lose, , possibly more underhandedness from certain vested interests, its almost as if some people are scared of being held to account for their actions, by their members, and then applying the same level of accountancy to the PLC.
     
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    It would be interesting to know what John Bailey @Lineisclear thinks about this move given his public statements about the 10.
     
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  3. snappertim

    snappertim New Member

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    Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction

    Just saying
     
  4. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    I think the last few posts re the current WSSRT Board sum things up well, it certainly does look more like a 'Banana Republic' as you say. No doubt the next moves will be "The EGM call is not valid so we are not doing it" and "some/all of the application from the "troublesome 10" are also not valid so we are not letting them stand at the AGM".

    The AGM will go then ahead without certain names on the ballot pages with yet another 'reason' why they are not allowed to stand and as its online nobody can have the time to question things just agree with the proposed changes with the name and the articles which they have already said is what is going to happen.

    My biggest concern is that the current WSSRT Board would be silly enough to just give their shares in the PLC away as the PLC have asked PLC Shareholders to do (who do you give them to, umm.......). This would allow the current WSSRT Board to do what they have already said they wanted to do with the WSSRT and make it sit quietly in the corner and not be involved with the WSR.

    Being as close as I have through this whole sorry saga themes of behaviour appear. One is the 'old guard' in power will do anything to cling onto that power and another is that people often accuse others of things they are doing themselves.

    Logical people on the outside looking in have rightly said on here its time for all in West Somerset to play nicely and bury the hatchet. From my ring side seat knowing the personalities as I do the new fresh people looking to move the WSR forward would have the ability to do that, however the old guard doing anything to hold onto power can't, its just not in their nature. But please don't take my word for it, just sit back and read the continuing saga on here as it happens and see who does what in the forthcoming rounds of WSSRT & PLC E/AGM's and of course the re-structure to John Bailey's new order which, don't forget the PLC are already completing with the 'consultation process' to its Shareholders of JB's plan already underway.

    It won't be long no doubt before the PLC will announce 'the results' as they suddenly seem very keen in the last week or so to have the operating company (so in affect the WSR) under a new control entity of some kind which they invent, helped no-doubt by the £865,000 cash injection this week.

    To use others words: Tell me who are the Cuckoo's in the nest sending in a Trojan Horse to stage a hostile take over bid ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    His first law also seems reasonably apposite at this point. :)
     
  6. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    Since you ask I'll simply observe that the comments on here are ample proof that the 10's proposal is succeeding in raising tension and division. Quite the opposite of the stability that is so desperately needed and on which vital external confidence depends.
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    And your thoughts on co-opting 3 extra trustees and not announcing it? How does that help a peaceful Somerset in doing things this way?

    I fail to see how the 10 are responsible for the actions of the WSSRT. It seems to me that you are afraid of admitting that you were wrong. You've been tucked up and played like a fiddle by the PLC.

    What was Stalin's phrase for people who are usefully co-opted to defend the indefensible?

    Somehow it is the fault of the 10? Really? That is a bizarre argument. It is like something out of Stalin's USSR. 'Our great and glorious 5 year plan would have succeed but for the saboteurs and capitalist running dogs within our midst'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  8. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    As you've suggested before. I can only repeat that it's not a solo performance. The same tune is being played by all three chairmen and the PDG has joined in the chorus. You really have to question who is fiddling out of tune?
     
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  9. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    They might be playing the same tune, they might not be playing the right tune. In which case questions need to be asked of the person who put the tune forward.
     
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  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I will just observe that in any well run organisation, Mark Thompson would have to recuse himself from decision making on the plc’s* proposals due to a conflict of interest.

    * An aside. I had to correct an autocorrect on my iPhone. My typed “plc’s” was converted by Apple to “pox’s”. Make of that what you will.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Everyone involved or concerned with the WSR should be rejoicing that the line has received a large sum of money to save it from failure.
    But what is seems to be happening is more of the same divisions and bickering continuing.
    If anyone wonders why the PLC are taking a very strong stance then it seems to me that the reason is that they accept that divisions will be a recurrent theme on the WSR and others will continue to promote their way of wanting to do things.
    There is only one way the WSR can go forward it seems and that - like it or not - is going to be the PLC way.
    With the cash injection the line can now get progressing towards its next train operations - Christmas maybe - Covid permitting!
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    There’s much in that. But I question the wisdom of such an exercise in raw power as the means of settling historic disputes.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  13. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    There are people on this thread who would blame the weather on different groups within the WSR. *Anything* is ammunition for their somewhat one-sided viewpoints.

    There is such black and white thinking in this "discussion". One side is completely wrong, but the other side is a totally respectable saviour of the universe.

    It does make you wonder if there can *ever* be any sort of settlement with this level of animosity.

    The "new broom" theory of replacing old with new isn't as perfect as it might seem. The "new" needs to have (or gain) support from elsewhere - they can't do it all themselves. How are the members/shareholders/trustees/volunteers of these many different groups ever going to get along and work together?!
     
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  14. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    John. lets just for one minute focus on the democratic process and not a small number of some peoples opinions.
    1. How do you defend as a lawyer a Charity stopping its members standing for election ?
    2. As you rightly say 3 Chairmen (not necessarily their Boards and certainly not their memebers who haven't been asked yet) along with the PDG have said they want a single charity controlling an operating company, the 'troublesome 10' and indeed most other people also agree, its the one thing most can agree on. The '3 Chairmen statement' issued by the PLC or the PDG Minutes didn't clarify exact detail of how it was to be achieved just this was the direction. You say the 3 chairmen and the PDG are right but the troublesome 10 are wrong. What makes some right, but some wrong when all see the general direction as the same ?
    3. The true issue is of course which exact path the WSR takes to achieve a re-structure, the PLC way or the 'troublesome 10' way. One is complex and one is easier, both get to the aim all have stated. You defend the PLC way which is your right of course, but would it not be better to give each side 10,000 words in a document to explain why their way is the best and then give both to the members/shareholders of all three organisations for all to decide in a fair and democratic way?
    4. Why do you feel its right for people in power and you here to continue to undermine an apposing voice in their thoughts by attacking them directly and continuing to say they are causing division and unrest. Would you not prefer to be the person who presents both sides of the argument for 'the people' to decide?
    As an official 'WSR troublemaker' a tag given to me because I disagree with the current PLC Board along with being called mentally unstable and a person of interest to the ORR who have my name pinned up on their notice Board in their Birmingham Office in order to stop me volunteering on any Heritage Railway (or at least that's what a PLC Board Member told me!). I for one would agree with a consensus of opinion if a balanced and open process were in place for the people of the WSR to decide on their future, even if that was for the PLC way, because that's democracy.

    Do you not agree that at this turning point in the WSR's future the people should be given all the facts in an open and transparent way and be allowed to decide, or do you feel it should continue with insults and deflecting from the actions that needs to be taken to stop the WSR failing?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    they won't, its just going to roll on, for an eternity, until they either throw in the towel, and leave, or are made to leave. and that goes for both sides, there is a lot to recommend that none of the existing trustees, or board members should be allowed anywhere near any new structure, that if the line and it's supporters want peace, they have to put ego's away, and step away but would any of them actually do it? more than likily, they would play the blame game.
     
  16. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I follow your point Paul, but some people can only do things their way as they are unable to do or see another. I am sure you have met them in life.
     
  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    What I find difficult to understand is how the unethical practice of using co-option (shades of X6 here) to ensure that the Bailey plan is not disrupted are sound foundations upon which to build a new peaceful WSR? I fail to see how engaging in chicanery and manipulation of boards to fix the result to be the result you want is the way forward.

    The reality is that the 10 can be rejected at the WSSRT AGM by the members, their proposals can be rejected by the WSRA, every step of the way, there is voice for the ordinary members, while currently what we have are back door, behind closed doors deals being struck. That is not the future, that is the past repeated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  18. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Person of Interest to ORR? Photo pinned up on a noticeboard?

    Who on Earth said that? Whoever it was has no knowledge of ORR and it’s Inspectors!
     
  19. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    From this outside view of today's latest controversy, it appears to be the current WSSRT management who are raising tension and division, not the other WSSRT members trying to do their bit to help the railway
     
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I have. And there are some of those on both sides of this particular debate.

    Personally, on balance, I support the @WSSRTcandidates group in this because their approach to the governance of the WSR seems much more sustainable in the long term than one originating under the direction of the current plc board. I base that on a mixture of declared positions and past conduct.

    Separately, I also have grave problems with a plc board who claim an inability to operate in 2020 due to Covid, offer no signs of having planned for serious operations following the outbreak of Covid, and whose evidence for the inability to operate under Covid hinges on the failure of a level crossing which, by their own account, was already too broken to use safely regardless of Covid. I very much hope, but with sadly limited expectation, that the recently announced grant will be well used rather than going the way of Seaborne Freight.
     

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