46115 Scots Guardsman

Saturday's times are in the public domain already (on uksteam.info). Can you share Thursday's times with the rest of us, please?

 

courtesy of Ian from Prestonrail yahoo group thursdays times are;
5Z46 0724 Steamtown – Hellifield

Carnforth dep 0827, Lancaster 0832, Preston 0851/0907, Blackburn 0927/0932, Horrocksford 0954, Hellifield 1042.



1Z47 1051 Hellifield – Carlisle

Blea Moor 1114, Garsdale 1124, Kirkby Stephen 1134, Appleby 1145, Carlisle 1227.



1Z48 1439 Carlisle – Hellifield

Appleby 1524, Kirkby Stephen 1536, Garsdale 1548, Blea Moor 1557, Hellifield 1620.



5Z49 1630 Hellifield – Carnforth

Blackburn 1719/1723, Preston 1741/1746, Lancaster 1804, Carnforth 1810.

 

Distinct lack of water stops.

 

good point :-k

 

Even with a very short train a steam loco is going to need water at Hellifield at the very least.
And some remarkably fast timings on the return.
Appleby to Garsdale 24 mins pass to pass
Preston to Lancaster 18 mins start to pass

Feels more like a diesel charter to me.

 

However, on looking at the times again, there does seem to be a lot of time allowed between Blackburn and Hellifield...

 

I agree, there is something drastically wrong with the times - assuming that these are indeed the final times supplied by Network Rail.

Carnforth - Lancaster s/s in 24mins is ridiculous - steam is hard pressed to cover the 21 miles from Lancaster - Preston s/s in 24 mins.

Blackburn - Hellifield normally takes around 50 mins so one must assume an arrival at around 10.22 - could the Carnforth - Hellifield leg be diesel (although even a 47 would struggle to achieve the 24 min booking from Carnforth.)

Hellifield - Appleby is booked just 54 mins whereas normal steam timings (eg. Dalesman) is 67 mins. In normal steam days the morning Leeds - Glasgow was booked 58mins for this section and even the limited load 'Waverley' was allowed 55 mins - yet this was in the era of much higher line speed limits and certainly not the blacnket 60mph of today.

Even Appleby - Carlisle is allowed just 42 mins whereas the normal steam timings are 49 mins.

On the return journey the anomalies continue with just 45mins allowed from Carlisle to Appleby. Normal steam timings are around 57/61mins allowing for the Newbiggin slack. Appleby - Garsdale in just 24 minutes (46229 eat your heart out as another Blue Ribbon is on the cards!!!) - normal steam times 37 minutes and just 56 mins Appleby - Hellifield (normal steam timing 77/78 mins).

On the basis that even 46115 cannot defy the laws of physics the only charitable explanation is that Network Rail have mistakenly timed this charter for diesel haulage! Or is it such a light load?

David

 

Regards water stops, the only ones I can think of are Preston, Hellifield, Carlisle. Surely there are facilities on some of the stations if needs be?

 

yes, but water stops are recognised as a necessity and generally incorporated into the projected timings

 

Also highly unlikely to leave Carnforth at 08.27 when their is a Pendolino 6 mins behind it.

 

Just been told that thursday's WCRC private charter is Top and Tailed class 47 and class 57,sorry chaps

 

the latest is that 46115 is actually on test tuesday, no times yet

 

If this is booked for steam haulage it is worth noting that Network Rail allows 72 miles for a 500 gallon tender-full. Based on this and WCRC competence I would reckon that a full tender off WCRC Carnforth would require watering at Hellifield ( both ways ) and Carlisle - so no problem !

Remember that 46115 has al;ready undertaken a test run and accomplished Hellifield - Preston - Carnforth on one tender-full so there is no problem. The timings I am not qualified to comment on - I leave the experts to discuss that - but at least an early morning trip to Preston should soon confirm the traction.

In respect of a proposed test run on Tuesday the normal 12:00 path from Carnforth would seem to be the most likely time for a daylight run but this includes a water stop at Cherry Tree which has been known to be disregarded in the past with a consequent earlier passing time thereafter.

 

tuesdsay is the normal circular, carnforth, hellifield, blackburn, carnforth, 1006 ex carnforth

 

Selected times are 0834 ex CS, 1407 thru Preston. Can't remember the rest, as they are at work.

Oh, and a 1hr-ish water stop at Hellifield.

 

I love these magic tenders...

The toby carvery do a bottomless jug of custard too!

 

Its that dodgy digit again ! Sorry but should read 5000 gallons.

which at 76.75 miles is well within the NR 10% tolerance for a water stop.

 

21.10.2000 45407 running as 45157 from Liverpool to Carlisle took water at Blackburn it was booked to take its only other water stop at Appleby but ran through non stop ie. Blackburn to Carlisle without taking any water. Was travelling on the train that day and have often wondered if this was a record distance, considering the climbs, between water stops. The return to Liverpool was via Shap.