FR & WHR & WHHR News

For sure! As much as many might bemoan yet another livery debate, I do find them always pretty enjoyable for the most part, certainly as a good number of locomotives actually have quite a large variety to choose from.

Personally while I like it's current livery, I look forward to see Welsh Pony in green, it's a smart livery and should help to make it stand out all the more. And seeing how it's the only Large England in existence, as well as having spent so many decades out of the spotlight and practically forgotten at times, I reckon it more then deserves all the means to stand out more then most engines on the FR.

And for those who'd' prefer Prince in the green, OUTRAGEOUS!! For as long as I can remember that engine has always been in red, it looks marvelous in red, and should for most part remain that red! Just feel that's it's definitive color really.

Palmerston on the other hand... not so sure about what livery would be perceived as it's best look, the one it's currently got I suppose?

Always feel a bit sorry for Palmerston oddly enough. Spent so long like Welsh Pony forgotten and sidelined, always appearing to sit ever more in Prince's shadow.

Least it had fame in returning as it was the only other operational England apart from Prince. But with Welsh Pony now back in action and being much more distinct as the sole existing Large England, feels like even more of Palmerston's little thunder it has has been taken away... Though I'm sure it's well looked after and is a fav to many all the same.

 

Prince was red from 1986 I think it was painted for the 150 anniversary.

It was green from 80/81 when it re-appeared. I don't know how long it was out of service before then but it was green in the 1960s.

I half think the FR should have 1960s set in Red to go with all the other heritage sets.

 

Just to add to the livery froth.

Prince wore a very tired Edwardian red until the mid 30s, then was allegedly painted brown. It most likely ended up green and stayed that way until 1986. The red was toned down a bit at the last overhaul but it is supposedly based on paint found dating from the 1920s. Both Prince and Princess are in this colour, but the other red engines are in a darker more 1880s shade.

There are quite a lot of carriage liveries both pre and post preservation not represented. Most of the locos are basically in variations of the 1880s to 1920s red too.

I guess the issue is that you end up with lots of different liveries but no matching sets. I think though there would be scope for a couple of coaches in cherry red. 110 would be good one as it runs in C set which is already mishmash of stuff. Plus it is a good representative of that era. 37, 22, 26, 123 might be good targets too. I don't think they would look too out of place in a normal red and cream set.

My personal favourite would be to see 10 van, a bowsider, and the porthole bug box in the 30s yellow and brown livery. Preferably with a crystal palace blue Welsh Pony on the front. Boyd painted a very dreary picture of this period, when it seems the reality was quite different. It would be good to change that perception.

Tim

 

I can't disagree with any of that. Potentially also 104, 116?

A short set and an oil fired Alco.

The yellow set could also include 21 as well?

As we are for livery froth? What livery should James Spooner be in? Also, I am going to call for DLG to be in Taliesin 1960s green.

 

I'm certainly up for a green double Fairlie, and I don't mind if it's DLG or the new one.
Personally I still think calling the new one James Spooner (II) is just silly, but there you are.

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I certainly wouldn't mind were it EoM !

 

If you took the stupid bells off it could pose as an early Merddin Emrys in Victorian green. I think that would look smart, but we do already have a green double engine sadly stuffed in a shed.

Painting Taliesin in its as delivered GNR green and brown would be great to. Not strictly accurate for its condition, but who cares.

Tim

 

What colour will replica Mountaineer be? I don't know what the colour scheme was back then.

As a sidenote, I came across the post on FB about various volunteers stopping and was pleased and sad to see Paul Davies is stopping as a driver. Sad that he is stopping but pleased he is well as he is someone I remember as a nice guy and I liked working with.

 

According to the builders' website https://1863mountaineerloco.co.uk/

 

Thanks as ever for the detail, Tim. It is a difficult balancing act with liveries: it is nice to have variety, but it is also good to be able to maintain coherent "sets", espcially with coaches. Going slightly O/T, I have often thought this about the Isle of Man Railway too. It would be nice to see the old plum-and-spilt-milk and two-tone-brown coach liveries again, but in practice I am sure you would end up with mixed-livery sets most of the time, which would just look messy. (Yes, I know F. 39 has been put back into plum lately, but it would be nice to have a slightly longer set!)

Returning to the FfR, though, I would say that, given that there is already a complete rake of heritage coaches in green, it has always struck me as a bit of a shame that there isn't an England or a traditional Fairlie in green to match them. So I think it would be nice to see one of these engines in "classic" FfR green (i.e. with black panelling and red lining) at some point, but I am not too fussy about which one it is.

I like the new livery applied to Welsh Pony but is it historicially authentic, or was it just invented as plans changed and it became apparent that the plum undercoat would need to last a bit longer? Anyway, personally I would be quite happy to see it keep that colour for a while and then change to green later. It will give me an excuse to pay two visits to the railway, won't it?

And finally yes, I like your suggestion of Taliesin in GNR green - as you know, that livery is a particular favourite of mine!

 

By this logic, the whole RH&D Paxman stud should go back into LNER green, all surviving 'mainland' Terriers, barring Boxhill, into Marsh umber and every mainline loco built between 1940-45 should be unadorned black (ditto every surviving NGG16). Dullsville!

 

Oh no, more variety. Maybe it is me, but everything in ‘victorian colours’ is a bit twee. DLG has only ever been red, ME, Prince have been red since the 1980s.

If you give me a blank cheque and the paint shop.

Linda in Penhryn black.
DLG - Green
ME - red
Prince- Green
Welsh Pony - purple and then blue
Palmerston - red
Blanche - Green cos it always has been.

I figure that JS II will be red, and when it comes back Earl can have its 1980s livery.

Alco, Black, Green or maybe the blue that Linda wore in the 1990s.

And an 80s set in Red, a yellow set and Conway Castle back in orange.

 

I think the point of these posts is to have some variety, not original livery veracity!

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I would not like to be on the footplate when the safety valves open.

 

That's alright, it's a Victorian loco - you just screw them down a bit more if they are troubling you

To be serious, the crew don't look much more exposed than you would be on a traction engine. When a Ross Pop valve goes off on a modern locomotive, it goes suddenly and is very loud. But on a loco with older valves, they tend to feather first, which gives some warning, and means they transition gradually, not suddenly, between a wisp of steam and fully blowing off. By time you get to that, the steam is heading straight upwards, so well away from the crew.

Tom

 

Oh, right. My bad ....


[Image courtesy Stepney on DeviantArt - s'pose it'd have to be something like that]

I actually rather liked the 'new black' worn by DLG, Tal & Lyd when they first emerged, especially the fully lined 30190.

 

On that note can I suggest that I can see a potential design flaw in the modifications applied to Princess here.

 

Pop valves will feather also.

 

There's variety, and then there's abomination...
(That photo's in the colour rail collection).

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A few of the older drivers and firemen had decided to hang up their hats. Of course we have also lost Mike Middleton who was due to come back driving this year. At the same time we've have people who are desperate to start but can't because of the restricions on trainees. I expect it has been particularly tough on trainee firemen though. They won't be able to get any turns at all. Hopefully they will still be enthusiastic enough to come back next year.

Paul is still involved with the railway though, and is keen to get involved with the NHLF project. He also volunteers at the NRM.

Tim