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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 60044

    60044 Member

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  2. 60044

    60044 Member

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    Things can and do change, I give you the example of the Hull & Barnsley Stock Fund who have recently been invigorated after 40 or so years of near dormancy and have struck up a partnership with Hull College for students there to work on two of their carriages. At the turn of the century the LNERCA were awarded an HLF grant to restore two coaches, which brought about the ability to run a four coach teak train.

    It's a question of finding and seizing opportunities.
     
  3. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    The final statement in your post cannot go without comment. At the SVR, BR Mk 1 coaches account for a lot less than half the passenger stock available for traffic. In the normal course of events there are 2 x BR Mk 1 sets, 1 x LMS set, 1x LNER set and 1 x GWR set, all made up of 8 coaches, with a further dining set made up of a mixture of vehicles plus another GWR historical set, both of which are formed of fewer carriages. The SVR cannot operate its normal service without its wooden-bodied coaches, as there are insufficient BR Mk 1s, so although the SVR management might not like the shared liability, they are stuck with it. It should also be borne in mind that many of the pre-nationalisation carriages have their own supporting groups, which assist with labour and funding.

    Andy
     
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  4. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    I understood that last statement to be part of the extract from the message from Mr Price. Perhaps 60044 could clarify?
     
  5. anglo-welsh bluenose

    anglo-welsh bluenose New Member

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    Sadly the fact you have done this does not surprise me... ooh well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    That is my understanding as well.
     
  7. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    If they do indeed vote against them, then that would be fine. If they vote in favour that would also be fine.
    The point being that a clear preference from the membership is noted and acted upon. That is democracy in action.
    (I just hope that any decisions are a clear majority and that the losing side respect the democratic process and either work to help acheive it, or at least stand aside so the majority can get on with the job without interference.)
    PS. Apologies for the rather belated response, but I think it's a point still worth making.
     
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  8. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    If you accuse someone of twisting your words, they can hardly be blamed for defending themselves by quoting your message verbatim...
     
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  9. John Palmer

    John Palmer New Member

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    In view of the WSR plc's conduct in relation to the S&DRT, and the HRA's continuing role as neutral appointor of an arbitrator under the plc-Trust Agreement made in 2018, I regard the making of such remarks as being singularly inappropriate. Now that Mr Price is posting on this forum under the handle @anglo-welsh bluenose, I invite him to suggest a convincing reason why the S&DRT should renew its membership of the HRA, given that it is likely to need every penny it can save to meet the expenses resulting from the plc's eviction of the Trust from Washford. I suggest that the HRA membership fee might be put to better use in meeting these.

    I also extend to Mr Price an invitation to explain to us the policy and practice of the HRA for dealing with a persistent failure by one of its members to conform to the Association's Code of Practice. It's a question that's been raised previously in this thread but has so far gone unanswered.
     
  10. 60044

    60044 Member

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    You accused me of misrepresentation, I simply chose to reveal the basis for my statement.
     
  11. anglo-welsh bluenose

    anglo-welsh bluenose New Member

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    If anyone would like to talk though this please feel free to email me at chris.price@nymr.co.uk

    My car is a liability but I still look after it and need it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. anglo-welsh bluenose

    anglo-welsh bluenose New Member

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    Happy to discuss by email or Phone. Email is chris.price@nymr.co.uk


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    There are stronger and weaker mandates. My point is that if the proposals have been put to the WSSRT membership, the WSRA membership and they have come back with a yes, it is a pretty strong mandate.

    To be fair, I think it is hard to know how any new regime would govern because it is hard to know how the losers will react. I think the best parallel I can think of is the issue of the military in states after periods of military rule. Now, you can hope that they will go back to the barracks, do their job as the military and not decide to intervene anymore. How you get them to do that is difficult - you can be like Spain and go for amnesty and amnesia (we will never speak of this again), you can be like Greece and put them in jail and throw away the key, you can go for some kind of lustration - ie you can volunteer but you can't run for office (as a way of preventing new fiefdoms from emerging). However, that all depends on what happens between now and the endgame.

    I think one of the key problems is always the hardliners. If the hardliner can be marginalised then you have a much better chance of a peaceful transition. If the hardliners are in a dominant position then you are screwed.
     
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  14. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    Why not reply on here? All the 'Anti PLC' types would then be able to see that the PLC are complying with HRA polocies, I assume from the HRA support given, removing the need for continued 'PLC bashing' regarding such matters. Win win surely??

    Mike
     
  15. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    To correct any misunderstanding the HRA's role, which I volunteered for, was never to act as arbitrator. There are suitable bodies and individuals that can perform that role and the HRA may be involved in identifying or appointing them. My role was to act as a facilitator in discussions between the parties which, I am pleased to note, are continuing.
    Apart from representing and promoting the interests of its members the HRA is there to guide, assist and advise them. Where a Code of Practice is not being followed the I suggest normal response of any trade association would be to establish if there is any justification and to recommend compliance before resorting to any disciplinary sanction.
    It's a sad feature of many of the postings on this forum that there's an apparent desire to denigrate the WSR Board at every opportunity. I believe they have made mistakes but I hope the role of the HRA would be to help and advise Board members do better, not leap onto the anti PLC bandwagon.
     
  16. Herald

    Herald Member

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    As ever we see the divergence between the heritage and preservation instincts of posters and harsh operational realities. As I understand it (and carriage restorers may wish to comment) issues such as ease of maintenance, availability of spares and ability to operate any service are high on most senior manager's priority list as they have to deal with the problems of running the advertised service. Thus we've seen a tendency towards coaches with fewer doors and replacement of older mk1's as they wore out and could be more cheaply replaced with others. We've also seen many heritage parts and systems (dynamos, cooking arrangements etc.) changed on heritage vehicles in order to use them.

    The NYMR has also (rightly or wrongly) identified Whitby as a major traffic generator necessitating stock which can operate over Network Rail. Issues such as secondary door locking and toilet retention tanks also emerge and of course passenger preferences and load factors between open plan and corridor compartment stock influence decisions. Covid may be altering the desirability of having some compartment stock but whether viable load factors (filling compartments) can be achieved especially with household mixing restrictions in place is debateable.

    The extent to which there is a specialist market for heritage stock as a premium train or for filming is always for debate but the reality is there will always be tensions between the costs and practicality of preserving such stock and operating a commercially viable service within the resources available whilst meeting the modern expectations and requirements of most potential customers. Just one example to ponder is disability access including toilets and its implications for preserving a heritage vehicle.
     
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  17. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    Yes, the shameful treatment of the S&DRT is the main reason why a change of leadership and culture in the plc is required.
     
  18. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    and I do wonder whether D&EPG (a fine group of people) will be next for the chop.
     
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  19. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    It would be a start.
     
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  20. John Palmer

    John Palmer New Member

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    Thank you for the offer, Chris. Before engaging in such a discussion I'd like to clarify the basis on which it would be conducted.

    I assume, since you seem reluctant to respond via a public forum, that you would wish such a discussion to be subject to confidentiality constraints. I would be uncomfortable with such an arrangement because you have already issued a public expression of your support for the WSR plc's management in your capacity as HRA Vice Chair, and have done so in a way open to interpretation as approval of that management's eviction of the S&DRT. Isn't that a good reason for making your response one that is open to the public scrutiny that would be precluded by a private email conversation?

    Regarding the Code of Conduct issue, I am sure you must be aware of the assertion made in this thread that the WSR plc set aside a range of procedures, including its grievance procedure, some 20 months ago, and that these have not been reinstated or replaced. The assertion has not been refuted by the plc, and if true suggests that the company has failed for an extended period to conform to Article 2.3 of the Code of Conduct. I'm not the only contributor to this thread who has drawn attention to what seems to be an inconsistency between the practice of the plc and the requirements of the Code, so it seems to me that there is legitimate public interest in the matter sufficient to warrant a public response on behalf of the HRA rather than a private email exchange.

    Having issued so public an endorsement of the plc's management via one discussion space on the internet, any reluctance on the part of an HRA officer to engage in public discussion of related matters in another such space does not, to me, reflect well upon the Association. So, were I to engage in an email discussion with you, what latitude would I have to reproduce any elements of that discussion?
     

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