Owning a four wheeler

What about a carriage? Ideally pre nationalisation

 

There are still a few smaller railways that make use of industrial tanks; Whitwhell is one example, and newer places such as Llanelli (from conversations) I believe would be interested. Other than suitability for distance, another problem with small industrials is that they do tend to gyrate, which doesn't always offer the best ride experience.

As for storage / usage arrangements, this will also vary between railways, managers and owners. Some Railways will be happy for you to base the engine there for overhaul if you commit to the engine staying for a minimum number of years once complete, others will only let you stay to carry out the work and will seek a fee for use of site and assets. It will all come down to negotiation and what both parties seek to gain from any working relationship. (Always have contingencies and 'fire escape' clauses in case things turn sour too.)

Industrials are an important part of Railway history too, so it is nice that some places / people still seek to keep these going. Even if not good for large trains, they can be great fun for brake van rides at a station, shunting demonstrations, crew training etc.

 

"A look"?!
I was one of the most frequent posters (under a different nom de plume) before the atmosphere of the forum shifted somewhat a number of years ago. I'm friends with and in touch with many who still are regulars.
You're right that many "showman's" style engines have no show land history, having spent their working life as either tractors, agriculturals or road locos, and there are also a number that started life as rollers, but if instead of frequenting internet forums one goes out to see what's out and about, and looks at the data of rollers that exist in roller form you may care to reconsider your original statement that "most" rollers are now showman's style engines. Finding Fowler T3 and Garrett 4CD engines still in roller form rather than appearing as tractors (not necessarily showman's tractors) is more challenging, but there are plenty of other makes and models to choose from.

...rollers are common as muck, and almost as cheap (in relative terms).
(much like their owners).

 

Well, that's me told in no uncertain terms then! One does actually try to get to as many rallies as I can, and one does also speak with some of the owners, not that one knows any owners personally, which is where I was told the information in the first place. If this is incorrect then that's fair enough - I don't pretend to be an expert in the field of Traction Engines and Rollers.

Richard.

 

I quite agree. Though they too can be something of a "Black Hole," that will swallow those paper promises [Bank notes/money] like there's no tomorrow. Just like buying even a small locomotive, that's the easy bit. From experience with the LNERCA the carriage may cost £3,000 to buy, that's for an LNER teak that's been converted to departmental use and thus stripped of their original interior, you're talking of at least £100,000 to restore/refit........

 

I don't have the means, or room for a traction engine, but if I were to have one it would have to be a massive ploughing engine. If you're going to cause traffic problems then make a proper job of it!

 

I guess we have all fantasised about owning an engine from time to time ...

I'd be asking myself "why do I want an engine?" Do you want it so you can have days on the footplate driving and firing? (In which case, maybe volunteering as footplate crew will get you more of that, quicker). Is it the ownership that is important, being able to say " that's mine" to anyone who will listen? (Maybe there is a syndicate or loco-owning group you could join?) Do you want to get your hands dirty machining parts and changing tubes? (In which case it might be viable, though a traction engine is presumably more attainable for the average person - even a tiny 0-4-0T is going to present major issues of space and crane capacity if you try to do it up in your garage!

One significant issue with a railway locomotive as opposed to a traction engine is that the locomotive is not independent of the infrastructure. Even if you have and can afford your loco, you have to find somewhere to run it, and unless your name is Lord McAlpine, that is going to be on somebody else's railway. Which brings inevitable constraints in how and when it operates. So you have to think about that relationship, both geographically and in people terms.

If it really has to be a railway locomotive, and you have a sound reason for why you are doing it, are narrow gauge locos more achievable? Thinking about something that could run at a place like Amberley or Hollycombe. Genuine question, I don't know the answer.

Tom

 

I love the Fowler AAs and BB1s - or how about a Z7?

Richard.

 

Great reply! I think the main reason for me would be just to “give something back” if you like. I, like many of us, have been there and done that on various things. I passed to drive at Shackerstone (and still volunteer occasionally), drive at Statfold Barn on the narrow gauge and now volunteer with Tyseley and have had many fabulous runs on their fine Castle class engines on the main line. Though it would be lovely to have your own machine purely to crew whenever you want, as you say there are easier (and cheaper!) ways to achieve this!

I‘ve been always been fond of the idea of being the sole carer (or main carer) if you like, of a smaller engine. If I had untold millions it would be a Great Western Heavy Tank but that’s merely a dream within a dream and totally out of reach unless the Euromillions numbers come up! I, like many of us I guess, see little engines rusting away and think “wouldn’t it be lovely to give that a chance”. Maybe I’m thinking too big. Maybe these days the ownership side is just for those who can say “I can fund it all myself so to hell with everyone else”.

All of these replies have been pretty interesting to compare and a lot of the perhaps more “constructive” comments I had considered. If the pocket would stretch to an Austerity or even a 16” Hunslet then I’m sure I could find gainful employment for it. As it is, even the four wheeler would be a stretch. Shame. Not to worry. Back to the old drawing board...

 

Another alternative if you want something to drive regularly etc etc is potentially something smaller like 7 1/4 inch. You are pretty much your own boss, if you don’t have space for your own railway (and lets be honest very few of us own a flat field) there are plenty of clubs around the country, and you can store the loco in the garage. I dunno, maybe too small, but then the size means it is also accessible for family. If you have your own line no one complains about an 8 year old driving a steam loco.

An alternative path would be to see if there is a nearby line you could develop a relationship with? Do they need a 0-4-0? Do they have an 0-4-0? Who knows, maybe there is an 0-4-0 sitting in a linear scrapyard that needs an owner. Or indeed maybe part owning something bigger? As you say, there are loads of these locos sitting around looking like they need tlc, so maybe find a line you like, with a need and with an engine and do what you said you would do and bring one back to life.

 

where there's a will...

I know of many people who aren't able to keep engines at their own home, and engine ownership can be a great financial leveler, with owners ranging from those able to afford large collections of very desirable engines alongside those not on huge incomes at all - all getting on with each other with a common interest and passion.

That said, if you're going to dream, you might as well dream big and not be hindered by practical details

 

With short wheelbase rolling stock and generous gauge widening you don't need a field - I'm looking to put a 10.25" minimal railway in my back garden, which is roughly 15m square. I probably won't run steam on that, but I have a friend with a 7.25" garden railway and a Tinkerbell loco which navigates some pretty tight curves (although his garden is a bit bigger than mine!).

 

I have a friend who has found a middle way - he rallies (and maintains) a traction engine for it's owner who has no real interest in rallying it. My friend covers the costs of rallying (transport, coal, running repairs etc) and the owner covers the costs of major work and provides storage facilities. All the fun without all of the overheads

 

Just to give some numbers as the owner of a small 4 wheeler. I think something like £15-20k for a complete but out of ticket engine is about right. Back in the early 2000s it cost about £15k for materials to do a substantial overhaul, most of this being spent on the boiler and associated items. The labour to do the work was free other than for bought in materials and one or two specialised tasks e.g. boiler welding.

 

I remember thinking about buying a 5 inch battery powered loco

Nice toy, not unaffordable but would I get my moneys worth from it?

Going up to the nicer stuff - say a Peak would add to the cost but not that much to the play value

I suppose its a question of what really interests you and will you get your moneys worth out of it?

 

I think £20K is a common asking price but too high. Sales of around £10K are more realistic for an 0-4-0 out of ticket and needing boiler work. You won't get much boiler work done for £15K. The last two I've had overhauled have been about £40K and they were generally in good condition. New front tubeplate and half sides on the outer wrapper plus tubing and a few peripheral jobs. No firebox work other than those stays required for replacing the sides and a lot of preliminary work done by volunteers.

 

Its one of those things on the list of things I'd like to do one day but suspect I'll never be able to afford.

I see small industrials sat in sidings and have often thought it would be nice to see one of those live again, but as mentioned above there is limited demand for these machines.

 

Pricing of locos is always interesting. It's in the public domain that Newstead was circia £30k, and I imagine that is of more practical use than a Barclay (NNR, Embassy, Chasewater and others still use sister locos). Speaking to another friend a week ago, he knows someone who bought a complete Barclay for about £5k, although it does need overhaul. Compare that to another 0-4-0 (can't remember which make - possibly an Avonside?) someone was asking £25k for, which was missing parts and out of ticket, it does make you think.

These engines will never make money, and if they earn enough to cover their next overhaul, you can count yourself quite lucky.

 

Get a miniature traction engine Sam, you know it makes sense. There's a great event I take mine to you might know a bit about.............

 

Get a 7 1/4" loco and a trailer and you can visit many lovely tracks. You might even get to harvest olives on a sun drenched hillside. This was yesterday.