West Somerset Railway General Discussion

I'm no lawyer, but unless someone knows differently, I've seen nothing to suggest legal responsibilities, for issues such as site safety, are altered one jot by lockdown arrangements and AFAIK, no-one from HMG has actually defined terms like "essential", with regard to Covid arrangements.

Any matters landing in front of a judge will be the subject of legal arguments over the extent to which current (and forthcoming) restrictions represent mitigating circumstances, with the only odds-on "given" being that several "learned types" will doubtless do very nicely out of the inevitable litigations.

In a relevant position of any responsibility for the safety and security of a site (or anything else, come to that), IMO the only sensible course of action seems to be to get written guideance from any insurer liable to stump up for any claim and keep the old axiom in mind "t'is easier to ask for forgiveness after the event, than to seek permission before".

That's all just my own (distinctly un-learned) two penn'th tho'.

 

Given what we’ve heard about the need to make railways safe under Covid, I think the social distancing is less clear cut than you suggest.

As for heritage railways, the challenge will surely be balancing their essential activities with the reality that many of the tasks will be performed by volunteers, working on what is a hobby. Those trade offs, however judged, will be messy as hell.


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I am not a lawyer (God knows, the thread has enough of those ...) but I think one of the things that is going to be uppermost on many minds is how realistic is the 4 week duration of the lockdown? If you could have real certainty in that, the Santa Season would be largely unaffected, at least from current plans / business case for numbers, so you could prepare the railway on that basis, including running training duties. (Though the travel restrictions for volunteers, as well as any reluctance to take part, might further restrict that activity).

However, do you believe this will be four weeks? From the last lockdown, deaths continued to rise for about three weeks after the lockdown was imposed before beginning to fall, and this is less draconian and starting from a higher base, so that lag could last longer. It is at least feasible that the number of daily deaths will still be rising four weeks from now, at which point it would be well-nigh impossible to ease the lockdown at that point. That takes you into December, and even an additional two weeks of lockdown then pretty well scuppers the Santa season.

If I were a betting man, I'd wager on the lockdown lasting well into December, possibly being lifted as a grand political gesture shortly before Christmas itself. If that analysis is right, it would be a brave railway manager who authorised the expenditure necessary now to prepare for a Santa season that may well not happen, particularly on the WSR where much of the general expense in preparedness (that has already been sunk on other railways) still has to be made.

Tom

 

Only a slight disagreement here Tom, but I suspect it will all happen as advertised, given any 'grand political gesture' from Boris ain't about to omit the politician's stock phrase "providing what help we can for small businesses" .... by which time, of course, "cutting it a bit fine for xmas shopping" would be a charitable description of HMG's concern for high street shops, the decline amongst which has been going on since the advent of broadband, irrespective of who's at the helm.

 

I think that is spot on. I would not want to have anything riding on lockdown being eased after 4 weeks.

If I were a railway manager I would be looking to the spring and what could be done then.

• Could you rely on consumer confidence to splash the cash on a family trip out
• Would people feel confident coming out in the cold/wet?
• Would volunteers feel confident coming out in the cold/wet?
• Given that uncertainty, could you manage things like stock, rosters, fuel, maintenance, rolling stock etc.

I hate to say it but I think the horse has bolted on the possibility of trains running again in 2020.

 

Wrong to like that post, but I won’t disagree.

 

Given that at the moment we all seem to be waiting for "guidance from the Gov" - which, on past experience, will mean different things to different local authorities, police forces etc etc depending upon how it is 'interpreted' - my suspicion is that:-
1. There might be an argument for the paid staff to continue to attend as clearly you can't drive a train from home (yet)
2. For volunteers, then going out in the car to volunteer at a heritage railway will probably not be considered 'essential travel'. However, if you can walk to the takside then pulling up some weeds might be classed as 'exercise'
But who knows?

 

certainly I would say, its going to be very hard for the Santa season, post chrismas might be possible as then it might be possible to run a few trains with social distancing as by then people will want a distraction from everything, assuming we are not all broke by then, it would be a lot easier to run winter warmers that Santa Specials, as you don't have all the extra overheads, to pay for, gotto's etc, and all the other bits, and of course if you say only prebooking, as there are only a few tips possible due to the shorter hours of daylight, you stand a better chance breaking even, or even making a profit.

 

I await publication of the draft regulations before I'll try and guess what is allowed, and what not allowed.

 

From a commercial viewpoint, absolutely. Just to clarify, my earlier post [34522] was referring only to the ability to keep stuff safe and secure during the present situation.

 

As many railways start their Santa Special programmes in late November, lockdown is bound to affect them even if it is not extended beyond Dec. 2nd - as I suspect it will be.

 

Understood. I write from the perspective of one who is unsure whether or not his windows can be finished on schedule, depending amongst other things on the letter of the rules.

 

Cheers.

At the risk of teaching one's grandmother to suck eggs, perhaps a key factor with jobs like windows (replacement?), doors, roofs, underpinning etc. comes down to adequate weather proofing, building and personal security. It'd be ruddy difficult for a contractor to claim a half-completed job, which leaves a building in an insecure (as opposed to merely 'incomplete') state, is remotely acceptable. Even if, initially, such a job may reasonably be categorised 'cosmetic' (i.e. when one is merely seeking a contractor), it's quite quite otherwise, once work already commenced, when it comes to leaving things in an unacceptable state. In that position, if the contractor deems outstanding work 'unsafe or impossible to complete under lockdown', my next - and immediate- port of call would be my insurance company (from bitter experience, by email, as well as by phone), if for no other reason than not leaving myself liable to fall foul of one of those myriad small print exclusion clauses, so beloved of insurers.

Whoops .... thread drift, although much is just as applicable to railway structures.

 

Fortunately , it’s more “cosmetic” work that’s required than structural. Or do I mean unfortunately?


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I suspect that in an attempt to avoid decimating the high street (Christmas shopping being the thing that keeps them going through the year), 2/12 will likely be kept to if at all possible.
Bear in mind that Wales are keeping to their 17 day firebreak and have announced they are coming out of it irrespective of the situation in England or Scotland.

 

You think it will be clear then?

 

No - but I know it won't be before the legislation's written and published...

 

Could some say what times the Manor moves to Minehead from BL and by Road or Rail so I can go out photo it please.

Also the Road down to the station building at BL buy the Phone box, is it okay to bring a vintage truck down to photo it against the station buildings. thanks

 

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