P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Is this one of those colors that's different for certain people? I'm beginning to think it is...

 

Speaking for myself, and despite the fact that I was just condoning the use of BR liveries on the P2, I actually wholeheartedly agree with you there. Sure there's plenty of posts I've put on this forum to support this claim too!

Long have I held a certain loathing for most things being put into BR liveries all the time, nearly every time they put locos and carriages left and right into BR form! Wouldn't be so bland if it wasn't for the fact BR's liveries are not the brightest or particularly striking of liveries, not compared to ones from the pre-nationalisation or pre-grouping liveries. So many are painted that way, and kept that way all the time, the owners/custodians adamantly against deviating from the BR guise at times.

That said however, as much as I might bemoan so much BR paint being about, I can understand the reasoning behind why it is so for the most part.

For one it is very difficult to present a locomotive complete with a matching rake of coaches that are authentic pre-nationalisation, as most railways' fleet of carriages are made up of BR Mark 1s, only a handful can avoid that for the most part.

Though I reckon the biggest and perhaps the most truthful answer as to why BR liveries reign supreme, is simply because most of the people running the railway and the indeed enthusiasts visiting them, well to put it politely are of a certain age bracket... They grew up with a lot of these engines and rolling stock in the BR days, few if any live that saw the time before that period now. So naturally as the folks running and others funding these railways and their projects, they call the shots for the most part and so will stick with what they are so familiar with. BR period it is.

Of course, once again trying to be polite about this, one has to imagine that as those who grew up having seen the BR days, and those after them that grew up learning and adopting their parents fondness for the BR days too... there will come a time when there are no people left alive that did see them working at the end of steam. As we go onward into the future it is quite possible that new generation then might look at things differently and wish to broaden the scope of liveries these locomotives and carriages carry. Indeed we may well come to a new era of preservation where I come to this forum with folk bemoaning the lack of BR liveries, as most if not all locomotives are in anything but! Crazy to think but it could happen.

Whose to say for example future enthusiasts and volunteers of steam heritage railways desire to see variety in liveries whether it's actually strictly authentic or not. You could have rakes of Mk1s in totally non authentic liveries to better match all the locomotives in pre-nationalisation guises, like a rake of Mk1s with that teak effect livery used on the metal bodied Thompson carriage to match the LNER engines!

Anything could happen~.

Be interesting, that's for sure.

 

Is it Apple green livery you thinking of Richard? Similar to the illustration at the P2`s website?

Knut

 

Why does anyone "have to struggle to be polite" over liveries? It's paint. If you don't like it, raise the cash to get it repainted...

Ftoad, despite being born well after the 3ns of steam, I generally prefer BR colours (with the exception of unlined green), like most paint jobs they look smart when done. Do you have equally strong views on LNWR black?

Re the P2, they can paint it in LMS lake if they want to. I'd personally like it BR black.

 

Quite agree Biker. The thing is though as I've mentioned multiple times, it's the slavish insistence by some, that whatever item of rolling stock only be painted in British Railways colours. Granted it's a difficult circle to square when there may only be a single locomotive of a given type' surviving. But when there are multiple then there is the option of multiple liveries that, that type ran in. Thankfully the A1SLT have turned Tornado out in all liveries bar the original LNER livery that the first Peppercorn A1 Pacific fleetingly ran in.........

 

Think it will look extremely elegant in Lined LNER Green, and it is period correct, as for BR black, no thank you, plenty more loco's on the main line are in that livery....

 

Yes, that's the one!

Richard.

 

Well, that didn't take long, the engine hasn't even got its boiler yet, and people are talking liveries,
But if that's the discussion we are having, I wouldn't mind the experimental Purple, or Ultramarine blue, Mostly because no other engine carries it, and it would make the engine stand out.
If the P2's had not been rebuilt, what would they have been classed as, mixed traffic , or express passenger?

 

Somewhere in steam engineer valhalla the shades of Gresley and Stanier spat their tea out...

Interesting point about mixed-traffic. I suspect the Powers That Be would have found it to be a passenger engine (that just happened to do a lot of goods work) rather than have such a big engine that might appear on an express in black. (Was anything bigger than a 5 branded MT? They seemed to go xP(x-1)F)

 

As much as I love seeing a Crimson Lake LMS livery, that to me looks completely wrong... Maybe it's just because I know the P2s never ran as such, the LMS always had black wheels too. Just looks wrong. Having said that, LNER lined Apple Green would look decent on a Coronation, I think!

Richard.

 

I rather think the P2 will stand out, regardless of colour!

 

Just do it LNER Apple green, it's correct and looks good too, end of. And this is from someone who likes BR liveries!

 

Agree with you. Black would definately not suit this engine in my view. It was enough for me to see a black "Flying Scotsman" or even worse a black "Duchess of Sutherland"!
But ,after all I will be satisfied if I`m still here and able to see (pictures) of the locomotive when it`s completed!

Knut

 

What is your definition of "correct" for a loco that is just being built now, brand new, to a new design* based on a 1930s LNER design? Mine would be whatever the people providing the finance would like. As one of those people, I would prefer it to wear a variety of liveries over a reasonable period. We can argue till the cows come home about personal preferences, but I rather like the red version in #2528.

*It is intended to look like the original but has many differences including valves and valve gear, pony truck, boiler length, boiler pressure, and a load of electrical and electronic gubbins.

 

Would a Norwegian 2-8-4 "Dovregubben" have looked good in Red or Apple Green? NSB seems to have used a colour similar to LMS Red for many diesels and electrics?

 

'Look like' the original, but the colour doesn't contribute to this?

 

Truth be told despite these difference I don't anyone will be able to spot them, not easily certainly, seeing as the valve gearing isn't all that different to the original design appearance wise, same with the pony truck. Even the boiler length difference won't matter appearance wise as all the cladding will conceal all that. So for most it'll probably just look the same as Cock 'O' The North, which is the intent. Only major difference would be width and height but even then the difference isn't all that drastic.

 

To be fair when I was talking about being polite, I was trying to avoid saying something like "it's for the nostalgic old people that might not be with us for much longer..."

And true I'd agree if you don't like it, raise the money to repaint sure! Except it's not usually as straightforward as that, I don't imagine, for it would seem a fair few people who own an engine are pretty steadfast and even stubborn about sticking to their nostalgic BR liveries... for a good number of them they'll usually only be open to repainting it when A) it's nearing the end of it's boiler ticket, or B) their doing it to help raise money for the locomotive itself.

The Princess Royal Class Locomotive Trust for example are well known for preferring to keep their locomotive in LMS crimson (which to be fair is a change from all the BR fixation), yet offered a vote funding rally of sorts, letting people vote with their wallets what livery Duchess of Sutherland would carry next for a time before it's boiler ticket expired. BR Green was the winner in the end, though it wasn't without some controversy from what I recall, not least of which being that bizarrely they had LMS crimson on there as an option which very nearly won! Clearly an example that though some want change, others are committed to keeping it just as is!

And then there are those engines which can't have their liveries changed because it was a condition in transfer of ownership... but that one's a whole other matter entirely on it's own.

As for your question of LNWR black, I have no issue with any livery honestly, though certainly can't deny LNWR black livery is a very smart look for sure~.

 

I think it would look great done up as Gordon the Blue Engine, somebody got photoshop....