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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Another edition of moving pictures featuring 130 steam test, the tax office demolition, and a update on various diesels.



    Tim
     
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  2. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Another video for you all. This time on the NHLF Boston Lodge project. It's a long one so you might want get comfy.



    Tim
     
  3. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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    Evening All,

    I'm still whiling away the lockdown hours going through my old VHS tapes and putting some on YouTube. One of the most recent ones is another part of my Ffestiniog video taken in 1991 and it features a ride from Tanybwlch to Blaenau behind MERDDIN EMRYS. If anyone would like to join me for the ride, here's the link:



    Hope it's of interest.
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I see the big guns have been up at Dinas for NGG16 No.130's first mainline test, with GM Mr.Lewin at the regulator and CME Mr.Whalley on the oil can. The ability of 130 to create it's own weather system has been explained as an iffy drain cock.

    The loco looks very fine in it's maroon livery, but for some reason, I keep visualising one of these beasties in Mr.Stroudley 'improved engine green', though done in the manner of the WHR fleet, as going 'full Brighton' on the undergubbins doesn't bear thinking about!

    Whazzat? Oh, OK .... here you go [F&WHR clip length 6' 31"]:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgBEAM&usg=AOvVaw1M8efrsWz4jfgOk-mQvHKe
     
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  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I note tightening the dome at 0:24. Would that be because a slight leak appeared only when it was up to pressure? And was the shower of rain from the chimney at 1:27 cause by momentary priming or what?
     
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  6. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    The water from the chimney will be steam that has condensed back into water while the loco has been sat idle for a period of time
     
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  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    An earlier clip (first steaming, up and down within Dinas shunt limits) mentioned the F&WHR policy is to stable locos overnight with the boiler topped right up, draining excess via the blowdown valve in the morning and demostrating said blowdown. Could be connected with what we saw.
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's normal practice to fill a boiler up as part of disposal, to allow for the water getting denser (and therefore dropping in the glass) as it cools. If you left a loco at full boiler pressure and half a glass, you may well find no water showing in the glass the next day when you lit up from cold.

    However - this isn't that. You would light up in the morning, test the injectors and then blow down on shed all as part of your normal boiler water maintenance routine. The blow down valve will be on the side of the firebox somewhere, low down.

    What was seen was, as @Steamie Boxes suggests, just some condensate somewhere in the exhaust. Could be several sources - a common one with locos with vacuum ejectors is that they condense water in the ejector exhaust pipework, and the first time you blow up the brake, you spit dirty water out of the chimney if you are not careful; however I'd have expected that to have happened earlier if it was going to happen at all. Another possibility is that there has been a minuscule leak on the blower valve which was resulted in water condensing and running down the blast pipe over night; the first serious opening of the regulator would lift that up and out of the chimney. Basically, any small steam leak somewhere, if it ends up condensing in something leading to the smokebox, could result in blowing out dirty water the first time the regulator is opened.

    Tom
     
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  9. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    Do the Welsh Highland Garratts have drift valves? That would be another source of leakage into the cylinders. Steam and exhaust pipes on Garratts are longer than on conventional locos and will take more heat to warm through


    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Thanks for the explanations.
     
  11. Hunslet589

    Hunslet589 New Member

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    Yes. It is standard practice to coast downhill with enough steam to stop the snifting valves from rattling - usually around 5 psi in the steam chest.
     
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  12. meeee

    meeee Member

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    These locos have a lot of steam pipework both live, exhaust, and superheaters so you get a lot of condensate when moving off shed. It is also quite steeply uphill out of Dinas so that's probably why it's getting as far as the chimney.

    The blowdown practice is to fill the boiler up at disposal but then drop it to half a glass before lighting up.

    These locos do have drifting valves but it is dealers choice if you use them or not. Some drivers prefer to just crack the regulator. The difference is the drifting valve is fed straight of the boiler so you won't get cooling steam flow through the superheaters.

    The draincocks are probably suffering with bits of crap from the restoration getting pushed though and stopping the valves closing. A not uncommon issue with steam operated draincocks.

    Tim
     
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  13. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    Some other railways do the blow down before putting on shed. Is there any advantage of doing a blowdown in the start of the day or at the end of the day? Possibly by doing at the start of the day things might have settled so more likely to be cleared during the blowdown. At the end of the day you have the advantage of doing that it will not have to wait for a whilst if the loco is not used every day but are adding more cool water when topping up. If though done daily it probably does not make much difference?
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    We blow down in the morning; doing it that way I think works better in terms of not over stressing the boiler - however, it would depend I guess on the local topography: our (Bluebell) normal duty finishes - bar any shunting - with miles of mostly downhill work.

    So: assume the boiler has been filled right up the night before. When you book on, the water level has dropped to about half a glass (due to the water contracting as it cools). You light up, and as the pressure rises, the water expands back up towards the top of the glass. As you get near your off shed time, you test the injectors and ensure the water is right up; then blow down (normally to half a glass), after which you are off shed. Being at half a glass enables you to keep things quiet while you wait to depart, but because the trip starts off uphill, you gradually build up the fire and gradually fill the boiler before departure. At the end of the day, the last 7 miles is all downhill except for a mile or so climb at an easy 1:150. So you try to run down the fire as much as possible, and gradually fill the boiler in the last couple of miles, such that you aim to arrive on shed with the fire well burnt through; pressure some way off the mark and the boiler nearly full. Then once on shed and all the disposal finished, you just fill the last bit of the boiler up over the top nut, by which time pressure has dropped right off and the fire is starting to go out.

    If we tried to do it the other way round - blowing down as part of disposal - we'd have problems at the beginning and end of the day. At the beginning, you'd go off shed with a fairly full boiler and then maybe have difficulty keeping it quiet before departure. Worse, at the end of the day, you'd need to come back with a bigger fire, because you'd need to fill the boiler up on shed, then blow down, then fill the boiler back up again. That second fill would inevitably be done fairly quickly, plus if you misjudged things, you'd end up with a full boiler and possibly an over done fire. So given our topography, you can do everything in a more controlled and gentle way doing the blowdown in the morning rather than the evening.

    (There is a secondary consideration that one of our regular loco duties doesn't get back on shed until near midnight, and you would not want to be blowing down then - less antisocial to do it at 10am than at 11:30pm).

    Tom
     
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  15. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Sorry I should have been more clear. The locos have a blowdown under pressure when coming back on shed. Then they empty about half a glass out in the morning. I'm no expert on the science but you certainly see quite a lot of stuff coming out in the morning that's settled around the foundation ring.

    Tim
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The water out of the chimney can be due to lots of things. I note that at the time of the event, the drain cocks were shut and were opened immediately the priming was noticed. It may have just been a bit premature to close them in the first place as everything would have been relatively cold. However, it could just simply be water that has condensed in the exhaust passages and then gets ejected when you open the regulator a bit more. The Standard Class 4's are good for this, in my experience. No amount of using the drain cocks will clear the passageways and it is only when the reg is opened a bit more that it starts to clear them. I can't comment about other standards doing the same but it is definitely the case with 75014, 75029, 76079, 76084, 80135 & 80136.

    With regard to the practice of filling the boiler and blowing down, NYMR practice is to blow down in the morning and sometimes at the end of the day, depending on the TDS levels. It is mandatory to fill the boiler as full as possible on disposal, which is beyond the top nut. A common practice is to shut the bottom cock of the gauge glass, drain the water and then keep injecting until the water enters the glass through the top cock. It's always easier to drain some out than put some in in the morning, especially as, if putting water in, it will be cold. You need to come on shed with a reasonable level of steam and water but not too much as you need to end up with a relatively low pressure when you've finished disposing. I well remember coming on shed with 220 psi and a full glass on a Black 5, only to get a rollocking the next day because there was no water in the boiler in the morning. Bear in mind the loco had a rocking grate, hopper ashpan and self cleaning smokebox so disposal was a matter of minutes and little time for it to cool down before we were signing off. Gauge glasses on a Black 5 are short and with the cooling and contraction it can easily disappear out of sight. Lesson learnt.
     
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  17. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

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    20210218_220238.jpg Found the attached item in the January 1939 Railway Magazine. Little did they know !

    Bob.
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Great clipping. Can any lexicographers among our number please tell me when the accepted definition of "frequent" changed?
     
  19. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps 'frequent' was wishful thinking!
     
  20. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

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    According to Northern Rail, my local station has a 'frequent' service. Two trains a day, each way. If they run!
    It compares to the former Mersey Railway trains at Liverpool Central where a 'frequent service' provided trains every few minutes
     
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