Edward Thompson: Wartime C.M.E. Discussion

Poorly worded perhaps but the intention was to point out the timing factor.

 

I have now read Tim Hillier-Graves book and my personal view is that it has an array of excellent photographs, some never seen before, and we should be thankful to him for that at the very least. there are some truly astonishing photographs of Thompson, the man, but I would also say there's a lot of photographs which are not relevant to the Thompson story and are slotted in to allow for ambles away from focusing on the man himself.

I am also very much of the opinion that there's little overlap between my book and his, particularly where research is concerned. Except in one area, for which I know - for a fact - that he hasn't had the primary evidence to hand when writing his book. So in short: by all means buy his book for the photographs, of which there are 250 in the 280 page book.

I feel strongly that the biggest issue I see with railway writers - and has been the case for some time - is that far too many focus on photographs and secondary evidence. If you come out of this thread with one thing that is more important than anything else, it is that primary evidence is of the upmost importance when writing on any subject.

 

Did you like the book-binding, and the type-setting too?

Glad it's not impinged on your work, I only hope that your potential publishers agree with that view, fingers crossed.

 

It's a well manufactured book.

 

From personal experience I can say hat Pen & Sword books have both excellent photograph reproduction and finished quality pr

 

Reading the Tim Hillier-Graves book has proved to me that my book has the edge on virtually everything else by way of primary evidence from the LNER. Not trying to be arrogant - it's just a difference of approach and being able to have this discussion here allowed me to cast the net wider. An advantage of being a younger writer, perhaps! The photographs are of course excellent, I just question whether the claims on the rear of the book are entirely true.

One thing has come up in the Tim Hillier-Graves that I will have to change, as it happens. It regards my chapter on Bert Spencer. Hillier-Graves has managed to get a hold of some letters from Spencer, writing about Thompson.

We all may wish to read the book and revise our opinions on Thompson's treatment of Spencer, if nothing else.

The letter reveals that Thompson and Spencer were rather closer than has been written on previously, to the extent that Thompson went out of his way to accommodate Spencer - and was the person that actually brought him into the fold closer for dealing with the standard classes. Spencer gained much from Thompson moving the department to Doncaster, in particular for his family and wife (both hailing from the north east originally) and the letter gives a completely different viewpoint on the Thompson-Spencer relationship.

Frankly - if you read the section on Bert Spencer - you then completely revise your opinion and the truth is that Thompson and Spencer had an amicable, working relationship, with Thompson making arrangements for Spencer that suited his work and life in particular.

So much so, that I must make amendments and credit Mr Hillier-Graves for this discovery accordingly.

You see, one of the things I have been saying for years is that the Thompson story has been told in the worst possible way. This more or less proves it - other people speculating wildly on a relationship between two men and accusing one of being awful to the former. Now we have evidence that proves this wasn't true. Yet again.

 

So, to summarise, your manuscript (at the publishers) has to be returned to yourself for a partial re write, and Mr Hillier-Graves book has too many photographs.
I'm a bit confused as to exactly what career path you have chosen...........Engineering, author, or ???

 

I'm a bit confused as to what point you're trying to make?

 

Surely I can have an engineering career and also write books in my spare time if I so wish?

 

Especially as I have my doubts that the income from Railway books constitutes a serious career unless one is able to knock them out very quickly indeed. Serious research costs significant time and money. The hourly rate for my book, which doesn't seem to have been a poor seller, is deplorable.

 

We've had enough of polymaths on here.

Agreed, no money to be made out of books unless you are J K Rowling. Do it for love or not at all.

 

Just so long as the research remains more consistently robust than, say, OS Nock

 

Perhaps @S.A.C. Martin hopes his book will achieve Harry Potter sales levels?

 

I'd be happy to just see it in print and doing some good - changing the viewpoints of people on Thompson.

 

Income from books is NOT a fortune; to put it into context I have used my own photographs in published books because if I paid the going publication fee to others I would end up paying to get the book published. As S.A.C Martin notes one publishes for (a) personal satisfaction or (b) simply to expand the knowledge in a specific field. Many do not realise the satisfaction gained from a physical book with one's name as author but the expense of getting to that stage often comes to more than any generated income.

 

Amen to that... My publisher wanted some third party photographs in my book. I think the rate per image from my drawings, which the book is full of, worked out at a fraction of a percent of what the image libraries were getting. Its difficult, cataloguing and preserving a photo library is serious effort and they do deserve to make a fair rate, but damnit, that differential hurts. But to put it into perspective I did the sums, and a quick tour of the further reaches of the country to get photos of enough classes to more or less fill the gaps would have cost me more in fuel and cheap motel stays than it cost me to buy the images.

Think that £35 book is expensive? I tell you, its not!

 

Agreed re the very high cost of obtaining images: although sometimes if the subject is rare one has little choice. For my forthcoming Egypt book in many cases there is only one publishable photo of a class known to exist... Some of those with photo collections are very generous and delighted to help make the subject better known. Others I think often don't realise that what sounds like a modest charge per photo makes a small print run book unviable.

 

If important new evidence came to light, although published by someone else, every author (or engineer or scientist for that matter) with any integrity would wish to take account of it in their own work if there was still time before publication. After publication they might also need to accept with good grace any valid criticisms of their errors and omissions as I’m sure Mr. Hillier-Graves is doing now and Simon may have to in due course.

 

Getting O/T here (sorry), but I can't help but wonder about the sort of changes online-only publication will bring (aside from making this book lover despondent) e.g. How do things stand concerning utilising credited images already in the public domain? Including only links to same would save a hellofalotof download time, not to mention revolutionising the bibliography/referencing section. Maybe (away from dire online fiction) it's already happening and I just haven't noticed!

I sincerely hope I don't live to see a day when physical books go dodo-wise. So often, there's absolutely no substitute for ferreting out a much loved volume and whiling away the hours ensconced in it's pages, hopefully going some small way towards balancing the care lavished by the author(s)

 

Which is precisely why I have updated my working drafts bibliography section to include Mr Hiller-Graves work, and to also acknowledge his work in my section on Bert Spencer, this week.