850 Lord Nelson

I think im kack handed to be honest; I sort of skim the coal off the baffle plate down the front. It works for me. I’ve been shown to fire by so many different people both in there day jobs and also on preserved lines that I’ve sort of picked up bits of everyone and made my own technique.

Which is why I was wondering if you would fire Lord Nelson like a A4 (or how I would fire an A4)

 

I think im kack handed to be honest; I sort of skim the coal off the baffle plate down the front. It works for me. I’ve been shown to fire by so many different people both in there day jobs and also on preserved lines that I’ve sort of picked up bits of everyone and made my own technique.
[/quote:1muasjyn]
But isn't that how everyone learns? You pick up information from lots of people and then you decide on what is the best for you. I note that it has been stated that the Mid Hants crews are essentially a regular team of driver, fireman and trainee. That means that the fireman might pick up bad driving habits and the trainee bad firing habits without realising or being told. A frequent comment from cleaners on the NYMR is that one fireman tells him to do it one way and another a different way. My response is that you are simply learning different techniques; some might be good, some bad, but it is giving you a lot more experience than if you only ever did it one way and, when you pass out, you'll be better for it.

Well an A4 is a wide box so it's more getting the shovel inside and flicking the coal into the back corners and sides than flinging it as far down the front as you can. The A4's have a relatively large rat trap. You should try some of the smaller ones, especially on the Lambton tanks. The technique with these is half shovelfuls and don't try to put the blade through the door because you'll probably fail. The coal has to be shot off the blade with it more or less outside the door.

 

I think im kack handed to be honest; I sort of skim the coal off the baffle plate down the front. It works for me. I’ve been shown to fire by so many different people both in there day jobs and also on preserved lines that I’ve sort of picked up bits of everyone and made my own technique.

Which is why I was wondering if you would fire Lord Nelson like a A4 (or how I would fire an A4)[/quote:1quui11z]

I'm trying to read between the lines of your postings here: (whilst trying to avoid falling into the trap of trying to write about a practical skill).

- If you're hitting the baffle plate habitually, where are you looking when firing? If you're looking through the firehole, at where you want the coal to go, then you will find the shovel blade will point upwards, sending the coal into the baffle, and often then into the middle of the fire. Sounds like you've maybe had enough in there brfore you set sail to "get away" with it? If that does sound like what's happening, try imaging that the backhead is glass, and look "through" it at where you want the coal to land; does that make sense?

- What are you firing with? If you're firing an Eastern door, then a proper shovel is almost essential. Failing that, try the ones sold via the NYMR shed shop, link on Moors website. They're usable too.

If you guys have got 29 crews to cover weekends (post above), then is the problem simply that you're not getting enough chances to do the job? We're fortunate in being able to get any amount of shifts, and also probably shift rather more "rock" duringthe course of one too.

Don't believe everything you read in books - the authors are in the business of making them an interesting read. Did this author have any first hand experience of working with these engines? Let's be honest - any fireman who couldn't do the job would have pretty soon found himself digging ballast on the PWay.

I've yet to encounter a Southern engine that is not a delight to work on - I suspect that the MHR lads will have a smashing time on 850.

 

In this case S.C. Townroe did know what he was writing about. He was shedmaster at Eastleigh in the early 1950's when the entire class were allocated to Eastleigh. Thanks for opening up an interesting debate about locos with similar boilers.

Cheers, Neil

 

Also Bert Hooker in his book stated ... the Nelsons were not anyone's engine. The required handling from both sides of the footplate to get the best results and were a hard taskmaster for an inexperienced fireman.

I also recall him mentioning this when I was lucky to spend an evening in his company many years ago.

 

There's plenty of engines out there that will eat a novice. As a personal example, I hated Bulleids at first, but after a couple of years experience, and a few days with an ex Nine Elms gent, who will also be known to the older MHR hands, I was converted. I suspect this beast will be the same.

We've had the K1 & the Q7, which although not as long, both have good length fireboxes, with a "break" in the middle. Unlike 850, they also have cramped cabs, and LNER firedoors. You get the hang of them. All we are talking about here is being confident in your ability to use a shovel. A 10' box will catch some novices out, but have some confidence in your abilities lads! If you can fire an S15 or a Black 5, with 95% of the coal going where you want it to, I doubt you'll notice the difference.

Next step - let's get her up the Moors - I want to play!

 

You can oil her up, then! It's got to be worse than the Schools, with 4 cylinders and that's bad enough! I think Maunsell was a fan of Churchward when it came to the ergonomics of oiling up.

 

Oh no, don't set the Swindon massochist maffia off again!

 

Nellie to arrive later today at the MHR
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/press.htm

 

http://www.rail37.com/2009/NWC_February2009-1.html

 

At 2000 Hrs she was seen by a friend of mine on the A31 - Running late!

 

850 is at Alresford looking a little frosty. Have a look at the latest news page on the MHR site.

 

Thats probably because she was left at Alresford over night on the Low-Loader....

 

I passed Nelson on the M40 at about 4pm yesterday. It looked rather rough and I was sad that after it left us at the GCR it has been neglected. I hope it will be given some TLC at Ropley, as it is a good engine and has in my opinion been treated unfairly.

I fired it a number of times on the GCR and knew of its reputation, however several of my colleagues and I had no problem with it within the confines of a preservation line (that has gentle gradients!). I can understand and have heard that its very hard work on the mainline.

The engine has a very long but not narrow grate that is quite shallow, gently raked, and low arch. Whereas with the 'Arthur' (Sir Lamiel) which is very good at feeding itself down the front, LN does not and requires you as a fireman to reach the front left handed without hiting the arch. This is certainly achievable and if you keep the water level high in the glass and the grate fully covered it steams very well even up a gradient. If you allow the water to get below 3/4 and create a wall half way down the grate because you keep hitting the arch you will quickly run into trouble. Its harder work than with some other engines, it isn't quite so rewarding on video as it is very quiet despite its four cylinders, but I enjoyed my time on it and wish it hadn't left.

 

Excellent post. Thanks for the heads up.

 

That tells it like it is. However, in the end, it's all down to the fireman and not the loco. Phrases like 'to reach the front left handed' and 'create a wall half way down the grate because you keep hitting the arch' lay steaming problems fairly and squarely in the hands of the man on the shovel. A reasonable fireman shouldn't have problems in overcoming this.

 

Certainly is a good post!! It will be interesting to hear from others who have fired her and those who will be firing her shortly on the MHR to see how they have done and any problems they have encountered?

 

Just what we need , factual information not folktales. Well done and thanks.

 

lovely engine, i was very happy when she turned up at GCR cous she is a lovely engine, i agree with what sche says, it was very nice to clean and do other things to this lovely engine i only wish she stayed at gcr a little longer but good look to those who have her know.

 

The MHR has a fabulous reputation and will be looked and cared for there... No one should worry. She will be turned out in all her glamour!! \/ =D>