If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Already answered, I thought?
    There's a reason a lot of lines use a structure like this.

    Noel
     
  2. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Rhiwabon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I resigned as a director of the plc because of the fact that no insurance company would provide us with a renewal of our directors liability insurance. I am still vice - chairman of the Trust.
    Had I chosen to jump ship when the rest of the directors did back in October then it would have created some problems, but unlike them I had the railway's interests at heart.

    Bob.
     
    desperado, MattA, P-J and 9 others like this.
  3. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    :eek:

    You did the right thing though
     
  4. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    bit of thread drift...

    GWSR & Llangollen have similar accounting periods. (Jan 2020/Dec 2019)
    GWSR had ~£650k more turnover, with £250k lower cost of sales.
    About 1/4 wage costs as well.
     
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Oh I didn't mean to imply we were at risk, just that it could happen to anyone at some point.
     
  6. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    8,658
    Likes Received:
    6,415
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Enfield
    A video memory from happier days.

    Llangollen Railway, Spring Steam Gala, The Croes Newydd Special, 5th April 2014.

     
    MattA, Crawley Ben and 49010 like this.
  7. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Terribly sad news about Llangollen, Hopefully, the firewall of the plc allows the rest of the business to carry on.

    Did the plc have the contracting business in it? If so, then if the railway operation is fundamentally sound, then maybe that will stop the damage there.
     
  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I would hope that the GWSR is on a much firmer financial footing than the Llangollen were, one thing puzzles me, and its this, was the decision to become an contract overhaul base, done because the PLC needed to increase its income to offset its expenditures? , or was it because someone thought its a chance to exploit what the railway could offer to the heritage market? I ask because reading the first statement, its clear that it was the engineering business that created some, if not all of the financial pressure I'm assuming that is also where the bank got involved, did the PLC get finance from the bank, and put up its assets as collateral ?
     
  9. Ben Jenden

    Ben Jenden Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    626
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Croydon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Along with a lot of people, terribly upset to hear such news today. Currently seeing how much money in my bank I can part with to donate to the fund. Every bit helps. - Ben.
     
  10. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,357
    Likes Received:
    2,313
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    As I have said in a post, I was not impressed at all by the workshop. Quite frankly, I was horrified and almost pulled my financial support from the Patriot project. Subsequent findings by the Patriot team, I think confirmed my views.
     
  11. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes they have given Nat West a first fixed and floating charge over all their assets - whatever they may be - sounds like a few Mark 1s and the stock in the shop

    David R
     
  12. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    "Fixed and floating charges over the undertaking and all property and assets present and future including goodwill bookdebts uncalled capital buildings fixtures fixed plant and machinery."

    which makes pages 21 & 25 of the last accounts potentially interesting...
     
  13. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    With thoughts to all those volunteers who've invested so much effort over the years ....

    Just having checked, Llangollen - Wrexham and (rather less realistically IMO) Ruabon - Barmouth currently still appear on Campaign for Better Transport's list of reopening aspirations, though neither appear to be part of any detailed proposal. When the combined populations of Llangollen and Corwen don't reach 6000, I leave you to draw your own conclusions. Relevant URL below:

    https://bettertransport.org.uk/re-opening-rail-lines

    I sincerely hope that the value of assets as an operational line, when compared with any (far lower) quantifiable residual value, make keeping infrastructure secure pending a viable reopening scheme a no-brainer.

    Much will probably depend on the local (and to a lesser extent, national) governments' view on the financial contribution of a working line to the wider economy. Let's hope 'interested parties' with relevant experience and the necessary standing are in contact with the receivers, sooner rather than later.
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I can’t believe that the Welsh government will let such a valuable tourist attraction go under. We have been here before with the West Somerset, although they didn’t quite get to the receivership stage. There is also the resilience of the enthusiast fraternity. They now need a breathing space to see if a financial package can be put together to put the business back on a more sustainable footing.
    The real lesson to be learnt and the West Somerset still don’t seem to have taken it on board, is that when the ship is taking on water, the crew don’t start fighting among themselves.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A lot of heritage railways are similarly set up with the assets largely held by the charitable organisation. the NYMR is one. In this way, the future of the railway is better protected from events such as this.
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You have good reason to feel uneasy with that set-up; perhaps not at the moment but circumstanves can quickly change.
     
    jnc and flying scotsman123 like this.
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Quite - it wasn't that long ago that we were on the brink of collapse due to circumstances completely beyond our control with a 7 figure sum to pay to repair landslips, so it's not just bad management that can do that to a railway.
     
    Greenway, The Dainton Banker and jnc like this.
  18. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Occupation:
    Theatre
    Location:
    Merseyside>Bury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Similarly South Tynedale sent into administration last September and supporting group there still seem to be getting on with work.
     
  19. Barry Buckley

    Barry Buckley New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    27
    I suppose you could ask the question what is stopping people work on the railway. The volunteers pay membership fees to the trust, so the big one would appear to be insurance for which careful looking at the contract would be needed, and following that at some point the question of electricity/water etc will come in. If things look good from the insurance point of view then if, as is being suggested, the leases of the land and almost all of the other physical assets belong to the trust, then there isn’t really any reasons why voluntary work shouldn’t continue...
     
  20. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It is worth noting how little the Welsh lines got in comparison to their English counterparts.
     
    ross and andrewshimmin like this.

Share This Page