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SVR General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by threelinkdave, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Apologies if I implied that preserved railways should get a free pass; I absolutely agree that they must protect those around them. My challenge was more to the calibration of the risk assessment than the requirement to manage those risks appropriately.


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  2. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Part of the furniture

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    By the same token, any recent incidents would also be kept tight lipped about until well investigated.
     
  3. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    ...unless it is convenient to highlight their occurence as justification for something.
    If that isn't required, then accidents are generally viewed as an embarassment and best not discussed in public unless forced to do so (such as by the media finding out and 'asking for a statement' prior to going public and potentially generating bad publicity).

    The statement simply referred to "fall from height incidents", it made no further mention of their nature, cause, any subsequent actions that may or may not have been taken, or actually how long ago it is since they happened.
    One would hope the company has learnt the lessons from those incidents a few years ago and put in place systems that ensure there haven't been more recent reoccurences. If there have, then that would indeed be a matter of concern.
     
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  4. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    That has been one of the problems with galas. The lineside is/was crawling with people. Some of whom I have witnessed wearing camo gear. Who then get offended when challenged.

    You have countered your own argument with the last sentence. The risk versus reward of a photo charter/s. Trained personnel come at a cost to the organisers of the charter and then a higher cost to the participants. The fenced off areas are basically a non starter as the better lineside shots are on private land away from the railway when permission has been sought through the landowner and organiser. In the current climate, yes any income is very much welcome but the reward is minimal compared to the risks.

    The above would be nigh on impossible to implement on a gala, let alone a normal running day. The policing of it would involve higher numbers of staff who are more than likely either the footplate crews/ train crews and station staff working across the event weekend. With the amount of public and private crossings and access points along the railway, you have no chance of keeping tabs on every single person. Also if a photographer were to plan his itinerary and the weather changes. Does he or she then notify the Duty officer (who has more than enough to do during events) where they are moving to.

    It is risk management. The ORR are breathing down not just the SVRs neck about this. Other railways have implemented the same stance on lineside permits and only a minority will make noise regarding the loss of permits. Or there is the gallic shrug and move on.
    IF there were to be a lineside incident and the SVR found to be at fault as landowner and of whom will be liable. The monetary fine is eye watering. Plus there is the real risk of the person whos name is on the safety case, being sent to prison for Health and safety breaches.
     
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  5. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    Well those aren't "lineside" shots, as they're on adjacent private land and thus the photographers are not "lineside" - clearly in those situations there's zero risk to the railway operations when all the participants have vacated the railway property. The SVR is actually very well blessed with photographic locations that are away from railway property, but then there are classic locations that aren't. The view by the Tenbury Jct wall isn't visible from the adjacent public road, but the railway land is wide with plenty of space away from the running line where a photographic position could be set up. The classic view crossing Oldbury Viaduct is from up the side of the railway cutting - well away from the running line, but you either need to stand by the fence on railway property, or on the otherside of the fence in the land/garden of the neighbouring home owner who I believe (some years ago) didn't have any time for the railway or enthusiasts associated with it.

    I don't know about the SVR, but when I've attended charters elsewhere there's always been a railway representative with the charter organiser who has been in a position to highlight any concerns with participant positions or actions and who has had radio contact with the crew on the train.

    Oh agreed - the simple solution is during gala events where there are intensive operations and large numbers of people around there simple aren't any lineside passes available. There are plenty of other weekends and weekdays in the year when the railway is running. There's an understandable desire for pass holders to flock to an event when there's an intensive timetable, but it's a case of as you suggest, managing the risks and it's far easier to not allow any trackside on those occasions than deal with the moaning of people who miss out on a limited number of passes, or juggling whether someone lineside does or doesn't have a pass to be there.


    I must admit my view on that would be 'tough'. The point of submitting an itinery in advance is so relevant people on the railway can be notified of the pass holder's location and activities. Suddenly changing one's mind and appearing elsewhere defeats the purpose of submitting an itinery stating where you want to be. Being granted a trackside pass should be seen as a privilige, and one that comes with conditions.


    I started by saying it is hard to defend the current situation of passes that isn't far off open access. There could be more restrictions on a photo pass scheme, but it requires a desire on the railway's part to make it happen and a willingness on the photographer's part to co-operate.

    I've already posted elsewhere that the railway doesn't really gain any benefit from the vast majority of lineside photographers, their photos aren't published, and when they are they aren't likely to be in situations that will attract the railway's core customer base to attend. I don't necessarily see it as a huge issue not issuing general lineside passes at all, many other preserved lines don't do it - and as a passenger on platforms I don't appreicate the (few) narky lineside pass holders shouting and bawling at the top of their voice about where I should or shouldn't stand. It can be fustrating when there are a crowd of people in one of the popular photographic locations away from railway property waiting for a train only to have lineside pass holders turn up at the last minute and decide to plonk themselves right in the middle of everyone else's view <shrug>. Playing host to charters is to my mind a better approach - risks can be managed from the railway's perspective, and from a photographer's point of view there's more control and opportunities ...yes, it can get boring on the 15th run past when you were happy after the 2nd - but hey ho. You said yourself that many of the best photographic view points aren't actually on railway property, thus no extra risk to the railway.

    If the railway is taking a hard look at focussing on the core business and maximising the income from that as much as possible, then it's not surprising that support for stuff like charters is likely to get dropped, in the same way it withdrew from mainline operations that simply distracted from running the core business.
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Fair enough. The wording of the statement is perhaps a little clumsy. I am surprised that lineside photography has persisted for as long as it has.
     
  7. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    I think people need to dig a little deeper re passes and photo charters. The SVR management are focusing on increasing passenger numbers ,bums on seats, and are lessening focus on enthusiasts. I think you will see a lot of changes over the next six months. I think I can say that these future changes will also affect loco owning groups.
     
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  8. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    The March edition of Branch Lines is ready and waiting for you to read. Just click on the link and you'll be through to the latest news from the SVR.

    Here's the link: https://www.svrlive.com/blmar21

    If the link doesn't work as a click-through for you, simply copy and paste it into your browser.

    Best wishes,

    Lesley and Patrick
    Branch Lines co-editors

    P.S. The Railadvent report was taken from an SVR PR on Friday, as reported upthread there was an internal SVR notice board issue the same day. It's been picked up in this communication too.
     
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  9. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    Thank you. The Class 69 video is excellent.
     
  10. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Not quite excellent. Yes, it is very informative and interesting but the "music" irritates me. The Class 69 itself would provide a better soundtrack.
     
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  11. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    Preferably edited / dubbed with the sound of a class 56. ;) <BJ>
     
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  12. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

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    I agree with this this a lot of the work on heritage railways is high risk by its nature welding grinding and heavy lifting people need to be kept safe while doing it.
     
  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I didn’t really notice the background music, but tbh would a 66 power unit provide a better soundtrack? Is it really that exciting?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  14. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I didn't write anything about wanting to listen to a 66 power unit whether fitted to a 56 or not!
     
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  15. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I haven't yet heard the sound of a Cl.69 but doubt I will find it exciting when I do. Nonetheless it would make a better soundtrack than that provided.

    Despite hearing such sounds many times 40+ years ago, this would excite me (1st clip):
     
  16. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    @Enterprise I've passed on your feedback

    Thanks

    Patrick
     
  17. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    My health and safety knowledge comes from the construction industry, but I would imagine that the same principles are applied here to risk management.

    The SVR will have guidance from the ORR or other statutory organisations to mitigate risk to wide range of situations. Much of this will originate from Network Rail or others. If they wish to deviate from this guidance they will have to demonstrate methods of safe working that successfully mitigate the risk equal to, or even further than, this industry guidance.

    However, this deviation would also increase liability onto the SVR as these method statements would need to stand up to scrutiny in court if the worst happened. The first question would be, 'why do you think you can do 'x' differently...?'. I think this is where the business decision comes in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  18. D1039

    D1039 Guest


    "You asked, we listened... hear the sounds of the NEW Class 69 that we've been testing on the Severn Valley Railway with GB Railfreight and Electro-Motive Diesel Limited."



    :)

    Patrick
     
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  19. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Thank you. That's the first time one of my petty grumbles has had such a swift and gratifying response!
     
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  20. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    I wouldn't get used to it :-D

    Patrick
     

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