Driver Competencies

One of which didn't involve separating the damned tender every time it needed turning!

 

From what I’ve been told signing for a route was entirely in the hands of the individual. You rode on the footplate and gained knowledge from the crew and personal observation of signals, permanent speed restrictions etc. When you were confident that you could drive a train safely over that route you signed for it. There was no time limit of pressure, obviously learning something like Taunton to Barnstaple was a lot different from Euston to Birmingham. In steam days, of course, there was no signing for a type of loco

 

Back in the 1990's (?) Pathfinder & EWS ran some Bristol to Gloucester excursions specifically so EWS crews could learn on GWR loco's

 

yes I've heard that one. Super D's were detested at anywhere other than ex LNWR sheds.

 

This reminds me of the occasion when 6100 Royal Scot visited the Llangollen Railway and the owner's rep was quite insistent on how the locomotive was fired and was angered when the loco was forced to stop on Berwyn bank to raise more steam during one trip. On return to Llangollen the fireman pointedly advised the rep to shut up and sit back then proceeded to fire the loco in a totally different way that saw the loco easily complete the round trip - including Berwyn bank. On return to Llangollen the fireman then told the rep that he had fired the loco the way that Llandudno Junction men had fired them when working the Irish Mail and the difference between the two firing styles was obvious.

One can also point out the experience of 60532 Blue Peter at Durham which highlighted the problem of driving knowledge / technique; I wonder what consequence arose from that incident.

 

I believe that a large part of traction training on diesels (and I'm sure electrics, too) is to do with fault finding - where all the breakers and cocks are, what they do, &c.
Pat

 

Wasn't one of the issues with the American 2-80s unfamiliarity with the correct method of testing the gauge glasses, which led to a couple of disastrous accidents?

On the question of what sort of fire etc: Clive Groome (who was a pretty top notch driver and fireman, with experience on locomotives of all regions) tells of driving 60532 on the Waterloo - Salisbury leg of a rail tour. The loco sounds like it was pretty run down with various faults like the drain cocks stuck etc; they were down to 100psi at Grately with 1/4 glass of water and lost 30 minutes to Salisbury. They had on the footplate a North Eastern footplate inspector and fireman as well as the regular Southern crew, but they couldn't make the loco steam either. After Salisbury, they handed over and the loco subsequently stalled on Honiton Bank for want of steam. He writes "from our experiences earlier in the day that was hardly surprising. I'd had tons of experience firing North Eastern Pacifics, but I'd never had to do it with dusty Welsh coal". He talks elsewhere about how the LNER Pacifics seemed to thrive on very thin fires, but that was with hard coal.

Tom

 

I read that the the driver of 60532 on the day that the slipping incident occurred, had several times been reminded/corrected to lock the reverser after adjusting cut off. I have never driven a locomotive with a screw reverser, and have no idea whether there are any where one does not lock it- but the events of that day very sadly made clear the necessity on an A2.
Whilst it seems, on the face of it, considerable negligence by that driver- every single time I drive my wife's grey import Toyota I operate the wipers first time when I want the indicator

 

This is testing my memory, but didn't the owners at the time insist on extra training for drivers on the North Yorkshire Moors Rly before they could drive the loco on the mainline following this incident?

 

You’re right; they’re all oddballs.

 

When the NYMR got the Super D they were fortunate in that one of theri drivers (john Fletcher) had been a fireman at Preston and was regularly rostered to them. He rode out with other drivers to pass on the knowledge. Definitely an oddball loco. I understand that the Coal Tank has many similar oddities

 

On the NYMR it will depend on the circumstances. Whilst it is a case that you are passed out for steam, full stop, wherever possible crews aren't given a strange locomotive without either an owners rep or a traction inspector accompanying them. It is not a rule, however and crews can end up on unfamiliar locos from time to time, although much rarer these days. In such cases they would just get on with it. As I think is the norm everywhere, diesels are treated differently and drivers sign for each type of traction individually. It does depend on the type of traction, though. We have a Class 25 in regular service so when we had a class 26 on loan a while ago, they are very similar so it was a relatively quick conversion, usually done in the day. I tend to avoid the diesels so am only passed on Classes 24, 25 & 26 and none of the English Electric kit.
Someone mentioned the S160's. The NYMR had 2253 when it first came from Poland and I'd also been on 5820 so I was reasonably experienced with them. I also quite like 2253. A couple of years ago the Railway had 6046 for a season and I had it on its second day in service. There was an owners rep with it but there was a problem in that I had arranged for Tom of this Parish to have a day out on the loco and with a cleaner as well, there wasn't room for the five of us. The Owners Rep graciously offered to ride in the train so avoiding me having to say no to Tom. I don't think it took too long to get used to 6046 but it was a considerably different loco to 2253. My fireman struggled a bit, though. Admittedly it was his first encounter with an S160. No doubt Tom can give an unbiased opinion.
Mention has also been made of Blue Peter and the reverser catch. It varies from loco to loco as to whether you need them in although you should always do so.. On LNER locos I am familiar with, it is a must, as it is with the S15 and Schools. the LNER locos will easily wrench the reverser out of your hand if they slip and the S15 will wind itself from reverse to forward without the catch. Try getting hold of a reverser wheel that is winding back and forth. On Black 5's and BR standards it isn't really a problem if you forget due to the arrangement of the reverser and fairly fine leadscrew. In fact I tend to drive the standard tanks with regulator well/fully open and the catch out controlling the speed on the reverser; half a turn out on the curves and half a turn back on the straights, trying to keep a constant speed. I just hold it with the one hand, safe in the knowledge that, if it does slip, it won't wrench it out of that hand
A question above referred to BIL and how WCR introduced that loco to their crews. I can't speak for WCR but, if it was an NYMR loco, the shed staff would have been responsible for its overhaul and would be very familiar with it, having spent many months working on it. They would have been involved with its running-in and would know all the quirks and foibles and be able to pass these on to footplate crews. It's really no different to what happens with any new form of traction. Those that have been involved with the build have the knowledge.

 

Actually, that illustrates why I tend to be loathe to comment publicly on footplate competence of others. Generally such comments are from some remote position (line side, or on the train, and sometimes based on a single point in time photograph to make a comment about a sequence of events) and as such you can have no real insight as to what was actually happening or being faced by the crew. But even if you are on the footplate, particularly as a guest, you don't necessarily know all the factors involved. I mentioned above a situation in which Clive Groome and an experienced crew managed to get down to 100psi on a Peppercorn pacific on a light-ish load on a not especially hilly route: if such a crew can have such difficulties, it shows just how wide ranging the factors are than can effect a run, most of which will be unseen to anyone not directly involved.

"Engine not steaming well today, fireman?" if you've made some slightly sluggish run up to the tunnel, and actually between the two of you you've rescued a dire situation with a tender full of dust, a boiler full of soup and a recalcitrant injector, and the driver has let her run a bit down from West Hoathly such that you are only 30 seconds late at Kingscote despite what was a pretty dire outlook going into the tunnel ten minutes earlier. The best crew performances are not always the sparkling ones.

Tom

 

As usual Tom hits the nail on the head. Had a guy come up to us at Fort William last summer, having noticed a minor hiccup on the way back from Mallaig (I dont think anyone else on the train would have noticed it). I briefly said what had happened - "thats steam engines for you" he said "they have a habit of biting you on the bum when you least expect it". Turned out he was a top link fireman at Germiston, South Africa in the latter days of steam there and knew what he was talking adout.

I was minded recently of a YouTube video, filmed by @sgthompson, of 45231 coming up to Shap Summit with the Jacobite ecs in May 2014. It is going slowly and sounding awful and to all intents and purposes is really struggling. In actual fact there was no struggle involved at all - the loco was steaming well and pulling hard, despite there clearly being something amiss. What had happened was that less than a mile out of Tebay loop the absolutely dead square exhaust changed in an instant to the terrible sound that you hear in the video. Gordon Hodgson was the driver, I was the fireman. We looked at each other, then over our respective side of the loco, but could see nothing untoward. As there was no sound of mechanical distress and the loco never faultered in its pulling capacity, Gordon decided not to stop and examine the loco on the main line in case we could not get going again. Instead we carried on and requested to be "put inside" at Shap Summit, to examine it there clear of the main line. What the video shows is the engine being nursed towards the low speed turn out into the loop and this not unnaturally, given the noise it is making, is interpreted as being a sign of struggling.

On arrival in the loop we found that we had a bent radius rod and combination lever on the firemans side. It seems that a new valve ring had momentarily jammed in a port. In such a situation you stop to sort the problem out as soon as possible, but the way the engine was behaving I think we could have gone on for miles and miles without any deteoriation in the locos performance. This always has me wondering how significant fine tuned valve events are to the actual performance of a loco.

Peter

 

I’m not sure if it was always the case but, certainly in the last couple of years before the end, Nine Elms’ coal supply came from Betteshanger, Kent.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Peter and Gordon told me the same story about what happened that morning when I chatted with him in Crewe the night before he drove 46233 over Shap on the Citadel .

 

Interesting stuff, below is a link to said video (I think) if anyone is, like I was, interested.

 

Gosh, I've never seen anything like that before. Very clearly something not right - 3 beats per revolution of the wheels definitely should not be happening!