Current and Proposed New-Builds

There was a Caley 4-4-0 new build proposed about 10 years ago to be built at the Strathspey but I don't think it ever got past the WIBN stage.

 

There's a Highland Railway Ben Alder project been started, which is a near approximation

 

Hi Knut - Yes, this is the one. That's the original Dunalastair I - The IVs had a larger and higher pitched boiler and larger cylinders and fireboxes. Beautiful Locos to me, and the Caledonian Livery looked fantastic. The Cardeans looked really impressive, but were sadly not as successful, due mainly to their over-long boilers and inadequate firebox size. Victims of the less successful ventures into 4-6-0 territory using enlarged 4-4-0 designs.

Richard.

 

All the Caley 4-6-0s were poor tools, apart from the Rivers which they bought from the Highland. On the other hand, their 4-4-0s and 0-6-0s were good. The GC were a bit similar, they had a lot of different, small classes of 4-6-0s, none of which were much good, but their 4-4-0s were good. Drummonds on the South Western was another.

 

Lovely looking machines from an era that seemed to be able to build aesthetically pleasing 4-4-0's at will.

And if you build two types you could paint one ultramarine and one light blue and save the livery arguments....

 

The McIntosh 4-4-0s went through successive enlargements through Dunalastair I/II/III/IV and then the superheated 139-class. Summarized here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotives_of_the_Caledonian_Railway#John_F._McIntosh_1895-1914

The article on the 721-class also mentions the "Belgian Dunalastairs":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_721_Class#Belgian_derivatives

Within a few years, the Belgians were building much larger 4-6-2s. The Caledonian had to wait until the 1930s before the LMS provided 4-6-2s.

Back in Scotland, McIntosh also used the Dunalastair I boiler on the 812-class 0-6-0 goods engines, one of which (No 828) is preserved on the Strathspey Railway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hugh_llewelyn_828_(6883953150).jpg

 

One of the Belgian built derivatives of the Dunalastair class is still in existence.

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/1024/belgium23.jpg

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/97177204@N03/47986302261/

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=Belgium&wheel=4-4-0&railroad=bs

https://www.flickr.com/photos/marc_1805/2991201541

 

And for an extra bonus you get a tank engine version as well!

https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Belgiumstockclassorder/Belgium-steam/i-h7jNrHG/A

https://andrewstransport.smugmug.com/Belgiantrains/CFV3V-Belgium-2011-Steam/i-cHvMQ9d/A

https://www.flickr.com/photos/laufbe/28249316260

https://www.rail-pictures.com/bild/...37412/on-26-september-2009-ex-sncb-16042.html

 

Apart from the cab (what in the name of Beelzebub has gone on there...?), that's a very pretty engine

 

And the smokebox door, and the hugely exaggerated capuchon...

On the subject of the Caledonian, I've mentioned before that I think the McIntosh 55 class would be ideal for preserved railway use... could even look decent in fictitious LSWR livery!

 

McIntosh did not build a "Dunalastair Tank" for the Caledonian itself. If he had done, I imagine that it would have looked similar to the 4-4-2Ts of the adjacent North British Railway:

https://www.lner.info/locos/C/c15.php

 

This prompted me to read about McIntosh. An interesting bio as he had been a driver and then lost his right hand in an accident and then moved into running.

 

It's from the same Drummond Brothers school of design and aesthetics, but quite a few detail differences, including smaller driving wheels on the Ben. Which, IMHO, makes it a more suitable candidate for a new build - plus Ben Alder is the one that got away...

 

I believe the first Series of these locos (CFEB Type 17) were copies of Dunalastair III locos and had Caledonian blue livery at first. The later Type 18 (including the preserved loco) were a more powerful derivative and carried a brown livery and later green livery.
For the francophones, more info here: https://rixke.tassignon.be/spip.php?article707
And a summary here: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_14_à_20_(SNCB)?wprov=sfla1

 

The Highland Castle has to be another excellent candidate for re-creation... and again, would look good in LSWR livery. The CdF de l'État had quite a few too...

 

and in LMS black too, of course!

 

And Maunsell olive, and Bulleid black and sunshine... and even BR black with a 5 or a 3 on the cabside and smokebox door...

 

I'm posting this here because 4709 has been discussed here recently, and its own thread https://national-preservation.com/threads/new-build-night-owl-4709-begins.34874/page-9 has been dormant since 2014.

A recent letter from the GW Society came with a copy of a coloured leaflet, which says that anyone who contributes enough cash will qualify for "Platinum" membership, the benefits of which will include "a ticket for 4709's inaugural main line train". Considering that they have abandoned the idea of taking the Saint main line because of both cost and gauging issues, will it really be possible for 4709, with a longer rigid wheelbase and lower cylinders, to go main line; or is the statement in the leaflet out of date?

 

Another factor perhaps being that at 4p there its mainline capabilities are limited in other areas.
IIRC the ' Night Owl' are going for a new boiler which makes that loco at at least 6MT -even limited to 60mph soits a Black 5 on Steroids.
Dont know if the new cylinders blocks are physically smaller to mitigate the loading gauge problem - one wonders whether any consideration was given to looking at building a boiler to a higher pressure spec. thus enabling a reduction in cylinder size...

 

Smaller cylinders, high boiler pressure - at what point does it stop being a replica? (No need to answer, we've had the debate before).

Just on a practical note - higher boiler pressure generally means greater weight and higher axle loading. Given that that is already (Wiki - other sources might be available) nearly twenty tons might cause issues with trying to run the loco on heritage lines. I know the LMS went to various exotic steels so as to keep the weight of some of their largest boilers down (greater tensile strength = reduced plate thickness for a given safety factor) but go down that route and you are really starting to get into a ton of design, compliance and certification issues. Is the appetite and resources really there to do that? It's a thumping great 2-8-0 so is going to be well above the requirements for pretty much any heritage line in any case; but at the same time not be very flexible for mainline operations regardless of boiler pressure because of route availability and speed restrictions.

Tom