LNWR locomotives

Must be a fake if the nameplates had Jeanie written with two "n"s!

 

I wondered how @andrewshimmin identified it, but just before the end you can see the number: 1304. Which accords with this photo 1304 "Jeanie Deans".

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...-number-1304-jeanie-deans-news-photo/90780633

But then I came across this photo, which also purports to be "Jeanie Deans", but is numbered 1305:

https://picclick.co.uk/1304-Webb-Teutonic-Class-2-2-2-0-Jeanie-Deans-393027499168.html#&gid=1&pid=3

Did someone stick the wrong number plate on whatever assemblage of parts was purporting to be Jeanie Deans when the photographer visited?

Tom

 

The most remarkable transformation of old film I have ever seen is Peter Jackson's Great War film 'They Shall Not Grow Old.' One interview he gave re the restoration is below when he outlines some of the challenges including getting the speed right:

 

The number in the photo is 3105 which was her Crewe works number and which she ran with before reverting to 1304.

 

Ah thanks. I must be having a blonde moment - focused on the “5” and didn’t spot the other digits were scrambled!

Tom

 

Just typical Crewe shenanigans, designed to catch out the unbelievers...

 

Talking of shenanigans one wonders whether at the time it would have been Crewe or Swindon most upset at the title of this film: the heading still inaccurate 100 years on albeit the correction is underneath. At least from Crewe's point of view it was not Derby they were getting mixed up with......

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-building-of-a-locomotive-at-crewe-1920-online

 

Another look at pre First World War Crewe with the building of a Claughton.

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-a-visit-to-locomotive-works-crewe-1913-online

 

Attaching the cylinders was interesting: all four in a block with the leading frames already attached being married up to the rear section. It rather destroys the theory that the frames were reused when the engines were rebuilt as Baby Scots, in the first two anyway. Eric Langridge had already explained that the Claughton frames were quite a bit shallower so would have needed a longitudinal section welding on to the top face, and the works were very sceptical of this, but i have seen it suggested since. Also interesting that name and number plates were attached in the erecting shop, presumably removed again for painting?

 

Possible that the number and name plates were added for the purposes of filming (to give an identity to the loco), but not as normal practice?

Tom

 

Many many thanks for this one. My Dad used to take me train spotting from the footpath above Bushey station and would point out to me when the signalman was pulling off for another train. And he also took me train spotting at Bushey troughs.

 

Frank Webb's locomotives have cropped up in discussions on the forum from time and now for those interested there is the first of two books on the Compounds out:

'F.W. Webb's Three-Cylinder Compounds' by Peter Davis

It covers not only the LNWR locos but those of his design that ran on foreign soil in 268 pages on art paper including 217 well reproduced plates in black and white and 8 pages in colour plus 47 figure drawings. The challenges and reasons for the designs are gone into in detail ( much well above my head! ) and the pros and cons are examined in each case with extensive use of the proceedings of professional bodies at the time and the contemporary technical press.

The impression I get is that on the whole they stood up well on a railway that demanded a lot from its locomotives and at a time when loads were increasing across lines over the country. It will be interesting to see what Mr Davis makes of the latter compounds in the second volume.

The classes covered are:

No 1874 a converted Trevithick single which he compounded initially

The Experiments

The Dreadnoughts

The Teutonics

Compound Tanks

The Greater Britains and John Hicks

The Three Cylinder Compound Goods Engines

Plus the Webb design three cylinders abroad.

Apparently there were only 700 three cylinder compounds worldwide and 234 of them were Webb's compared with about 40,000 2 and 4 cylinder types.

David Joy also seems to have had a close working relationship with Webb in respect of aspects of the designs.

One myth which is dismissed is the use of pinchbars to start these locos: it would seem that there was plenty of debate about the merits of the machines at the time a lot of which was uncomplimentary yet the critics who were using other problems apart from one minor reference would have apparently ignored what would have been a major argument in their favour if true. The legend seemed to have started with an after the event story picked up by Ahrons who even diluted his initial version at a later date.

 

Also interesting is the fact that of the remaining 466 of the 700 3-cylinder compounds built, 240 of those were accounted for by the Midland Railway. So it seems reasonable to assume that 3-cylinder compounds were more popular in Britain than anywhere else.

Richard.

 

Spot-on. 195 of the "Midland Compounds" were built by the LMS post-1923, but the LNWR/MR/LMS collectively built about two-thirds of the global total of 3-cylinder compounds. The only other numerous 3-cylinder compound type was the Swiss Jura-Simplon Railway Class G3/4 2-6-0, with 147 built from 1896. Details attached (from book by van Riemsdijk).

The 3-cylinder compound story did of course conclude on a high point with 242A1.

 

There is in existence one locomotive with a Webb 4 cylinder compound chasis built at Crewe with a Whale boiler built in Kent by a Crewe premium apprentice who was taught to fly by Bleriot and who won the Croix de Guerre after being judged unfit to serve by the British Army..............

https://www.stephensonloco.org.uk/Orion fact file.pdf

 

That is one nice looking Loco. I'd like to see it sometime.

Richard.