FR & WHR & WHHR News

@meeee - I am trying to figure it out from the 1881 accident in the Goods Shed which makes it sound like it was through the sidings.

https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Day_Log/1881-03-04

I made all the points so that it should run down the mineral line to the quays. I lowered the home-signal, and Roberts, the goods porter, lowered the distant-signal, which locks the two facing-points on the main line, which are the first that the train reaches. I also put No. 3 points where the line for the passenger platform deviates from the main line right for the main line to the quays. These points are locked by a second lever which is worked close alongside the point-lever.

There is a plan on p.189 of Boyd that has the connection to South Snowdon wharves as running off the third line (furthest away from the platform) which must have been a tight curve. (Port seems to have been Platform, Loop, line through to wharves, and then a siding)

However, there was also another siding that branched off from the end of the platform that ran on the other side of the wharf. If Boyd is to believed I think it was accessed through the platform and then via the point seen on the right of this photo.

http://217.34.233.120:8086/zoom-ite...NID=1618316712219#jumraUm95bkAAAF4yy7qDw/2511

Looking at Boyd there are loads of plans Duffws etc but no detailed trackplans for Port.

 

Looking at the photos the portion of SSW beyond the station looks to mostly be for ship building. So the siding off the platform road probably just went to this area. The slate wharf is walled off from the ship building portion and faces the cob. Parts of the wall still remain and there was access through a gateway at the end of what is now 5 road. One of the gate pillars is still there.

From what I can tell the sidings have just as much cant as the platform road. There is a photo that shows the station shortly after it is rebuilt with the stone building. The track and ballast are new and the special chairs are very prominent on the bend.
Tim

 

Does this plan help?
Ray.

 

It does. Thank you.

I know @Jamessquared has said that if he had a train spotting time machine he would head to Shalford junction. I think if I had a time machine then Portmadoc at its zenith would be my choice of location.

Failing that if I win the lottery and can have a model built for me

Do you mean this one? (1885)

 

Newport, IoW, around 1900 for me, but if you get to Portmadoc early enough, could you keep an eye out for where the bell was on Mountaineer?

 

I will do my best.

Reading up on things a couple of questions strike me:

'At Harbour station the empty wagons were assembled on a special siding (or latterly on the line from the wharves) and the departing passenger service would back onto the waggons after departing from the platform.'

Which was the special siding in the plan?

'Arriving at Minffordd the train would be stopped on the mineral line above the weighbridge and the train cut into portions depending on where the waggons needed to end up. The portions were then run over the weighbridge and weighed on the move to the nearest quarter of a ton. Those waggons carrying slate for transshipment to the Cambrian line would be sent down the line to the yard, whilst waggons destined for the harbour at Portmadoc were switched on to the main line where a new train was made up.

The remaining waggons departed under gravity for Boston Lodge. Officially the train was to slow down for Boston Lodge curve and stop on the embankment to allow the Bottom Shunter to propel it the rest of the way to Portmadoc. Often, however, the gravity train would thunder round the curve and leave the shunting locomotive behind and proceed all the way to Harbour Station or even over Britannia Bridge and around the harbour without stopping.'

Which poses the question how did the cuts for Portmadoc get from the mineral line back to the mainline? I am assuming that the bottom shunter must have propelled them out or was there another set of points towards Port on the mineral line? As there was only one bottom shunter if it propelled them out then it would have had to have followed the remaining slate wagons down to Boston Lodge (which I guess would have taken time - two trains in section and all that) which is maybe why they didn't stop at Boston Lodge to wait.

Edit: Looking at Boyd - there were two sets of points beyond the weighbridge towards Port to enter the mainline towards Port from the mineral line, and to enter mainline towards BF without going past the weighbridge. (I guess the loop must have been about the same length as at TyB)

 

The signalling at Minffordd changed many times and Boyds trackplans can be a bit misleading. However as you say there was a crossover to allow access back to the main line once a train had run over the weighbridge.

At Port there was a loop on the cob roughly where the WHR is now. Empties would be assembled there and picked up by the passenger service.

Tim

 

The Minffordd track plan I have shows 2 crossovers removed in 1956 between the weighbridge line and the mainline. The one on the station side of the points leading to the goods yard faced Blaenau whilst the other, downhill of the yard points, faced Port. I assume that this arrangement allowed loaded wagons, after weighing, to continue their journey to Minffordd yard or Portmadoc and empties to leave Minffordd yard directly on to the mainline avoiding any 'fulls' waiting on the weighbridge track.
Ray.

 

Yes that's exactly the photo I was thinking of. Note how high the outside rail is on the platform road thanks to those special chairs. Someone had some really odd ideas about cant on the FR.

Tim

 

Yes I think that is the idea. The loop line at Minffordd wasn't used for passenger trains until the 1920s. So a gravity train waiting to go across the weighbridge could queue all the way down though the station without being in the way. The up mixed could also set back to pick up more empties from what is now known as the long siding.

Tim

 

This has all got very fascinating very quickly and I'm especially grateful for the url of all those iBase photos, as they've been popping up on the Faceache pages and Festipedia for yonks.

In view of comments concerning gravity trains making it across both The Cob and Britannia Bridge, did the pretty tight Boston Lodge curve once feature Mr Spooner's chairs? If not, galloping round that one must've been an 'interesting' experience for the brakesmen.

An ancillary question now surely has to concern what (evidently highly effective) lubrication arrangements were in place for those many hundreds of plain bearings on unsprung waggons?

 

Reading somewhere yesterday there was an accident where a gravity train hit another gravity train that was parked in the loop and at least one slate wagon ended up on the Cambrian.

There is a very early picture of either Prince or Mary Ann and two carriages on the curve at Boston Lodge c1956 and it shows a very strong cant.

Likewise here

http://217.34.233.120:8086/zoom-ite...NID=1618394568836#QV17oQ5CcgAAAAF4z9Lo8g/2327

There is a better photo of the curve here

http://217.34.233.120:8086/zoom-ite...NID=1618394568836#QV17oQ5CcgAAAAF4z9Lo8g/2347

A more recent question. I was looking at the 1980 summer timetable. It was a four set service and five locos in steam. I am trying to work out what would have made up the fourth set. As trains were every 30 mins I guess they would have been shorter. (Crossings at Minffordd, RG, TyB and Dduallt). The loco roster must have been pretty stretched as well considering how ropey the Alco was at this time. So ME, EoM, Linda, Blanche, Prince (just back) and if you could coax it the Alco.

 

Many thanks MM. The 1956 shot, in particular, does indeed show the cant to good effect and the snow (or heavy frost) accentuates it further. Question well and truly answered!

My own earliest experience was very early seventies, when most trains still crossed at Penrhyn and T-y-B. I've read up on 'the relevant procedures' at Penrhyn. JGF indeed. The line always seemed to be teetering on the edge of a full blown loco crisis back then (Prince was OOS at the time)

 

The waggons were lubricated with Tallow. Behind the flap on the axlebox is a large cavity that slopes slightly towards a hole in the middle. There is no trimming, all that happens is when the bearing warms up it melts the Tallow slightly and it drips down the hole to the journal. When you stop it cools down as solidifies. It's very simple and self regulating up to a point. It also doesn't need much attention.

These days we use Lard instead simply because we can get it in Tesco. Seems to work just as well. You get a funny look when you pick up 15 blocks of lard and a bag of carrots for a vintage weekend though.

The GWR had a different idea when it came to slate waggons. They have a sprung worsted pad under the journal and a oil reservoir underneath. Very sophisticated for the limited amount of travelling they did. Only issue is they are constantly full of water and don't have a drain plug.

Tim

 

Well 1980 was luxury in having so many locos available. For most of the 1970s it was ME, the Hunslets and the Alco. (LT was out of use by 69?, EoM didn't enter traffic until 1979, I don't know when Prince went out of traffic).

I have to say that I think in terms of an investment the Hunslets were perhaps the best investment any line ever made. The FR would be no where without them. (Considering the failure of the Peckett and K1 as alternatives).

Given our discussion of gravity trains. I think I might be investing in FR Gravity Trains, by Peter Johnson

https://www.frheritage.org.uk/sales/books-and-other-publications/

Regarding cant, chairs and pway maybe @45669 can advise. (And any stories of gravity working).

 

The Hunslet Ladies are not just a great investment, but beautiful and characterful in their own right.
One silver lining of the restricted services due to COVID has been seeing them in regular use (and the Englands).

 

Pretty sure LT (then running as EoM) was in service through '71. I do recall seeing it steaming from several orifices, even if I wasn't aware at the time of it's unique fire suppression system! It's memory stays with me as is was the only native FR loco I saw working. Palmerston was doing a good impression of a pile of scrap and WP was also lurking, cold, grubby, unloved (and tenderless) at G-y-M. Princess, painted green, it's footplate covered in doggy-doo (funny the things you remember, half a century on!), was abandoned displayed in Blaenau (of necessity, reached by bus) and I recall 'The Ladies', once described as 'disgustingly reliable', going hell for leather, day in, day out, on frequent trains loaded to the gunwhales. I only saw Mountaineer once, on down working we crossed at Penrhyn, which rather limited the view. Call me weird, but I'm rather fond of it's utilitarian appearance, with either flavour of cab it's worn on the FR.

With tallow replaced by lard, those gravity trains could still use a vegetarian option!

 

Am I being simple by asking what the carrots are for?

 

I assume that some vintage haulage has 1hp and is fired by veg and hay…?

Simon

 

Yes it's for the authentic pre 1863 traction.

Tim