Swanage Railway General Discussion

When do these vehicles date from. Somehow they look right behind a tired-looking blue 33, but not behind a steam loco. I may be wrong though, hence my question about the date.


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The Dogfish (the four wheeled hopper wagons) date from 1955-61 so I guess would be OK for late era steam. The Turbot (bogie wagons) are more recent, a 1980s rebuild of a 1960s wagon type repurposed for engineering use.

Tom

 

And to add that of the wagons shown in the recent pics, the Rudd 4-wheelers are AB conversions of VB hopper frames with drop-side bodies, and that Swanage have extensively rebuilt some of the Turbot bodies (so they are preservation era only). (A pedant wrote.)
Pat

 

As someone who has the occasional input to Swanage galas, while several of us would like to tidy up the Dogfish to run them as a demonstration freight at Steam Galas (although we all have plenty of jobs in the way beforehand!), you're less likely to see the Turbots, particularly now they have been so heavily rebuilt for the reasons above.

We did run the Turbots in a demonstration engineers freight one gala, but that was nearly 10 years ago now.

 

I used to see them most often on spoil work alongside a Ballast Cleaner.
The plates covering the buffers and reducing the gap between wagons, are so that the Cleaner operators did not have to stop the conveyor with a full belt with the cleaner still cutting.

 

I guess that may have been this train from 2012 Autumn Gala

 

Yes, that's the one I particularly remember, prior to their rebuild as 'Super Turbots'. Much pulling of strings that weekend, with an air only wagon in the middle of that freight!

 

Back in the Jurassic, when I went out 'assisting' with renewals it was a case of finding a door, or similar, to bridge the gap. There was no chance of the conveyor stopping!
Pat

 

There is a sort of unofficial distinction between the waggons that we maintain for 'departmental use' ie super turbots, dogfish, and the 60ft flats

and the waggons that we maintain for purely heritage and display purposes ir Milk tank, tubes etc. The former there is a emphasis on functionality hence the rebuild of the turbots in to super turbots. The latter there is an emphasis on authenticity. Of course the more you can put either sort of waggon to practical use the more likely it is to receive the maintenance it needs.

 

I like your logic Nick, but a 12 ton BR shock van has very little difference from a 12 ton standard van, are we restoring and preserving what will be rare and important pieces of history, or just viewing them as storage vehicles?

 

Just thinking back to the 1980s, but I don’t remember seeing any T9s and milk tankers running around.

 

Many railways seem to sell tickets as an add on to a gala to ride in the brake van of a freight. Prior to Covid I used the facility during both Swanage and MHR Galas. Based on around 15 of us for a trip from Swanage to Corfe and back with a layover in the sidings at HX giving a unique photo opportunity, I viewed £10 as a great deal as an add on to my gala ticket and maybe £150 per trip for the railway. Not sure at Swanage there were any paths used up that coaching stock could have used.

 

Maybe not on the big gala weekends but on the smaller events like the S&D one a couple of years ago, the freight could be used for the drive and fire sessions for Southern Locos,

 

The whistle on the U Class today didn't sound very SR

 

Believe its got a stainer hooter on at the moment

 

There is an important point here that's worthy of intelligent debate.

I agree that a Heritage Railway in the modern era needs to be run with a commercial approach. Costs need to be covered, the operation needs to be financially sustainable. Services need to be tailored to the demands of the traveling public. But that's not the only driver for their activity.

There is another side to most heritage railways. They are charities. This doesn't just mean they can appeal for donations and get rate relief. It means they have to have qualifying charitable objectives for the public benefit. Dig in to the founding paperwork of the majority of these and you will find that they state they are there to 'preserve and educate'. That not just preserve and educate the things that earn an income. Unless you are a purely commercial outfit like the Paignton & Dartmouth your average Heritage Railways objectives is to preserve as representative a cross section of their chosen era as possible and we all know that freight was the backbone of railways in the steam age. If that means people stand at castle view crossing and see a freight train for free then so be it. The waggons are being preserved, the public is in a small way being educated by the display.

Charities by their nature take on lots of activity that doesn't have a commercial return. Its like saying the cats protection league will never make a profit from protecting cats. It rather misses the point!

I'm glad people want to work and donate to keep a little freight alive and running. If we can find ways to make them earn a little of their keep so much the better buts its not essential as long as there is a sustainable balance struck.

 

......quite a few railways have run stuff ‘with fresh air’ Close to home the North Norfolk run with a CCT truck in the train for bikes, buggy’s and wheelchairs.
Then there’s the GC’s mail, fitted and unfitted freights at the galas they put on...
Quite a few railways have offered brake van rides at galas...
The Bluebell even puts on a short goods to ride around on at Horsted Keynes, and I think the South Devon have a bar in a Toad van?
These are just a few examples @Mogul of what railways have done to recreate the past that people have showed up and paid that extra tenner for.

 

Up to 1959 milk wagons would be attached to early morning passenger trains to London.
After 1959 4 and 6 wheeled wagons could only be on freight trains.
Agree heritage lines should have a limited number of freight wagons for PW and Galas, but there should be a limit on poor condition wagons trackside.
The goods shed at Swanage should ideally be a goods operation museum, but due to current lack of space makes for a good workshop.

 

What I meant if put imperfectly was that especially as the evening approached there were a number of trains that contained a mix of passenger & parcels stock, OK in my experience not milk tankers but it recreated the experience of trains that were not 'passengers only'

 

You’d accept, I hope, that freight was part and parcel of a 1960s railway? Maybe you’ll also accept that some volunteers are interested in freight and looking after those wagons? Where would you draw the line? “Sorry, there’s no money for paint or brushes for you because your freight wagons don’t generate revenue?” Or, “thanks for diligently acquiring those wagons, transporting them here and carefully restoring them, but we could never run them up and down the line because they don’t generate revenue.”