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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I've repeatedly said 'if true' during this discussion precisely because of the lack of confirmation.

    I also really, really want to be wrong.

    The PLC could also respond to deny the rumour as well. That would quickly put it to bed. (Again, improved communication helping to stop rumours).

    Just how are the WSR HR policies these days?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If the legality of the matter as open and shut as @Lineisclear is making out, one wonders why such vast sums of money are being spent in arguing the toss. Am I just being naive when it comes to lawyers being involved, or is it perhaps less clear? We can take a good guess that people with legal qualifications and even specialist subject knowledge in the area will be involved after all...
     
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  3. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I don't understand this.
    Surely the HRA wants to be representing heritage railways and groups that are the best in the business and helping them to be the best in the business? If not then it's just a group that doesn't really count for much because it's members do what they want.
    The over charging was just an example, I'm well aware that railways can charge what they want, but let's say that on railway X some shady or unfair practice was taking place. Does the HRA just gloss over that because it's stronger with more railways in its grouping? At what point does the HRA dismiss a railway from its ranks?

    Look at it from the point of view of being a member of a professional organisation such as the GMC. Does the GMC say, no need to worry about that doctor who has some dodgy employment practices or has been over prescribing medicines, we're all better together and we'll let the Police sort out the misdemeanours? No, they look at it and after due process come to the conclusion that this person does not align with the good standards of the GMC and they are removed. So it should be with the HRA.
     
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  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I just wonder whether, if the reports are true, the allegation of bringing the WSR into disrepute might be considered by one or more of them to be defamatory.
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I Suppose time will tell, theres been no mension of this on facebook, or gloating from the sycophants of the PLC, as far as I can see, so something must be afoot, because in the past, thats been the first line of attack.
     
  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Worth going back to the saga of the Ex6 and re-reading the HRA adjudication which pointed out how libellous the accusations made by the Ex6 were to the members they expelled and how 'restrained' those expelled had been.
     
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  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    So why are people surprised by this , it is West Somerset and merely a continuation of a series of unfortunate events over the last few years. it will continue until such time as the railway is moulded and supported by those happy to follow the boards grand plan. They know the volunteers wont rebel as most volunteers value their time volunteering too much to be dragged into a dispute not of their making . The public will happily travel because they are slowly becoming immune to any allegations of impropriety from the top of government to any facet of life , as long as they get to enjoy a day out , factional squabbles are something to be quietly ignored .

    Railways are moving toward total control of all areas . it isn't just in Somerset , its spreading to other lines and it will change how we as enthusiasts enjoy and consume our hobby
     
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  8. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    I'm beginning to wonder how much I want to enjoy and consume my hobby, the way things are going.
     
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  9. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    A number of lines are becoming more managerial but not necessarily more professional in their conduct.

    Concentration of power in the hands of a few remote individuals, parallel to that a loss of agency for volunteers and fewer checks and balances, as you say a monomaniacal obsession with control. A model which depends on volunteers deciding 'my line right or wrong' and donors who don't ask too many questions. It depends on an almost cult like devotion to 'the line'.

    In this pretty depressing picture, I would argue that there are lines which have thus far not gone down this route. They are the ones to be cherished and supported.
     
  10. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    The HRA has a Code of Practice that its members are expected to adhere to. If there is a material failure to do so the member concerned can, as the ultimate sanction after due investigation, have its membership terminated.

    The Code requires that HRA members have in place and follow a disciplinary procedure broadly in line with the HRA's guidance on that subject. As highlighted earlier there is nothing in Law to stop a member from terminating a volunteer's involvement for whatever reason it chooses without the need for due process. That would be a fair analogy to the GMC example. The HRA would be concerned if that were the case. If a member nevertheless conducts a thorough investigation and follows a disciplinary process compliant with the Code then good standards have been observed and there would be no grounds for the HRA to intervene.
     
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  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Out of curiosity, on what basis would the HRA become involved in considering an alleged breach of that code of practice? The GMC is criticised from both sides, but there are a number of suggestions that trade associations can be less than active in their enforcement of their codes of practice.
     
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  12. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Or until such time as it follows what's currently happening to an unfortunate line in Wales. (I had intended to stay out of this, but your post lit too big a bulb in my head.) Luckily, here too, the trackbed is owned by local government.

    Noel
     
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  13. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    This bit bothers me. As volunteers we have to adhere to all sorts of rules and we are sometimes told we are treated as unpaid employees, but on the whim of a single individual we can be fired on the spot. That isn't right.
     
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  14. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I would agree with what you say here with the addition of the words fair and transparent with regards to both the volunteer dismissal and the appeal processes.
    With specific regard to the WSR, it has now been 2? years since the HR policies were removed, so how can the volunteers that have previously had their cards removed and also the alleged new cases, possibly have had a fair hearing, never mind any kind of appeal?
    With this in mind do you not agree that the HRA is failing in its duty to bring the WSR into line or remove it from its ranks?
     
  15. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    I accept it's tough because, as others have pointed out, Trade Associations want to retain their members if possible. Ideally any failure to comply with the Code would involve encouragement to improve with guidance on how to do so. As a general principle modifying behaviour on the basis of lessons learned is preferable to sanctions.
    Termination of membership would be very much a last resort but one that could be applied in extreme circumstances.
     
  16. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    Which is why there are those that argue that volunteers deserve more protection.
     
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  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I'm curious as to how bad a line's management has to be before the HRA stops adopting a Mr Barraclough approach to it.
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Structurally on the WSR, how do you suggest that could be achieved - particularly given the recent statement from the plc seemingly rejecting the structural reforms you proposed? What form / forum should volunteer influence take? And perhaps more importantly, where now for the Bailey reforms?

    Tom
     
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  19. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    Surely that's a matter for the volunteer support organisation for any particular railway. Not suggesting that all volunteers join a union, but there is something to be said about the old 'united we stand, divided we fall' saying, so I would expect their members to stick up for each other and don't understand why that does not seem to be the case with regard to the WSRA. I can only assume that they either know stuff about the situation that we don't, or there is widespread apathy amongst their members.
     
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  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    There is , or appears to be a culture of mutual loathing between the various trustee board s and the PLC have taken advantage of it to consolidate their grip on power, We saw as much recently over the election of the WSRHT trustees, vested interests in the shape of the chairman, and others who held positions of power and sat on both the trust, and PLC boards, ensured the reformers would not win, its all about retaining their own personal power, that's also why the reform agenda has been booted into the long grass, to ensure certain peoples own power isnt threatened, by people asking searching questions, and exposing either an agenda that might not have the railways best interests at heart, or exposing their own lack of a plan , if the Steam trust and WSRA had combined, it would have made life very difficult for those in positions of power, as they would have been vulnerable to any attempt to hold them to account.
     
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