APT

May have been posted before, if so sorry, found this quite interesting.

 

Thanks for posting that. Always worth another watch IMO. When the train was rapidly withdrawn from revenue earning service in 1981, BR offered a limited number of seats to staff on test runs as the project evolved. I was lucky enough to grab one of those seats on a day trip from Preston - Euston and back. I was totally impressed by the experience, if a little nervous when it didn't brake at expected points along a route I knew very well! The reverse curves south of Stafford station gave the full tilt experience and provided a 'WOW!' factor for me! Much has been written and argued about how BR handled the whole project, but I wonder if we would have seen the Pendolino's charging up and down the WCML , had APT not have been developed?

 

Isn't the Pendolino technology just the APT technology made to work and honed by the Italians after we flogged it to them, if so I suggest the answer to your question is no?

One thing that came to mind watching that was what were BR actually doing for most of the 70's, most stock they entered the 80's with was 50's and 60's produced cannot think of anything that dates from the 70's bar the 87's, albeit as I were just a toddler I have probably missed stuff?

 

That was my point, without APT, would the Italians have gone on the develop the Pendolino? I think you can add the Mk3 passenger vehicle to 87's for the WCML roster. When I was doing the weekly commute from Liverpool to the BTP Training Centre in Surrey, I always preferred to ride in a Mk 3 or a Mk1. Mk2's had a dreadful habit of 'hunting' and shaking the passengers half to death. I swear that sometimes, you'd think you were off the road and the look of genuine fear on some of the passengers faces was understandable!

 

The PEP electric units were being introduced in the late 70s (313s, 507s, etc). Mk 2 air cons as well. There's a small matter of the HSTs that were introduced in the late 70s as well.

 

I'd also add the 56s on the freight side, but the HSTs were the big thing for me in that period.

 

This popped up the other day which was also of interest, if nothing else I had never twigged what the things on the end of the carriages were, I think they are on Peno's at least.

I wouldn't know about the PEP stuff, but OK you can have the HST's Actually as a toddler my old man took me on a trip from Swindon to Paddington and back when they were first introduced so we could experience them.

 

They're on a lot of units. Living on SR territory at the time, I remember looking at that and wondering quite how sacrificial people in the ends would be.

 

Remember that the APT was one of 2 developments ; APT by non-railway engineers and HST by railway engineers - and we now know which was the better product. My experience of the 1970s was that BR was prepared to accept (within limits) trial and error in the development of a future railway despite the interference of Governments - especially the Treasury which knew the price of everything but the value of nowt ! The main developments that were spawned in the 1970s and came to fruition in the 1980s were in passenger stock - especially DMU and EMU trainsets.

 

This mention of "Hunting" reminded me of my past!....
I have been interested in the APT for a long time and remembered that, in 1967, I was on an Easter residential course for school sixth formers, with BR, based at Crewe. We went to the "New" Derby research centre and were shown a test rig investigating bogie "Hunting" (Pictured). Later, I think, this led to the High speed bogie design and its use on the APT-E and APT-P. We were also shown a model of the, then secret, APT-E! I wonder how many of those on the course became BR engineers...I failed the medical with slight colour blindness!

 

Nice memory to have. Tough luck with the colour vision test...must have been a hard blow to take at the time.

 

Thanks John....well I did have a slight change of direction.....but still returned to trains!!
Here are a couple of pics (taken at Crewe Nov 2017) on topic.


I still wish that we could see this running again!

 

CIG and VEP being built until 1972
87 - 1973-75
312 - 1975 - last of the slam door stock
313 - 1976 - first of the PEP
56 - 1976
507 - 1978

I'd suggest that while there was not the same multitude of classes being introduced there was a steady stream of locos and rolling stock being introduced and the mid 70s represent a major shift.

 

The mk4 coaches used on the ECML were based on the APT stock to a degree. Whilst not fitted they had space underneath to retrofit tilting gear had it been developed/refined......

 

There's quite a bit of interest in this picture, but my eye was drawn to the background in the top left. The item with the arrows of indecision.

It's a bit small and dark on my tablet, but I'm thinking it looks a little like one of those ill-fated fibreglass boxes intended for use by guards on the back of a freightliner train. Or are my eyes deceiving me?

 

Certainly looks like one.
Handrail and Bulls eye window.
We have one in our yard, another lives at the NRM in York.
We have heard of another near
Southampton.
Can anyone confirm this 3rd example or any others that may still exist.

 

As an addition note on the surviving APT set. When they were withdrawn and had been sent for scrap, it was realised that one hadn't been preserved, so a "cobbled" together set was assembled from the remains that hadn't been cut up......... Making the survivor a composite set.

 

Seconded, that first pic of the driving car is a cracker btw, such a massive ‘what if?’

 

I'll try to remember the next time I pass Millbrook FLT by train.
In the early 1980's it was the bothy used by the "groundstaff" ie shunters cum loading assistants out in the yard. OK for shelter from any rain but cold and uninviting. A couple were offered to Southampton MCT for use by shunters, but somehow ex GPO phone boxes appeared instead.

They were very quickly removed from their original use as somewhere for the guard to ride. I think there were some nasty injuries due to poor riding and far from ideal braking of the series 1 freightliner wagons. Superseded for a while by air piped coaches added to the trains until it was permitted for the guard to ride in the rear cab on the train loco.

Cheers, Neil

 

I was told by more senior Eastleigh Guards that they were very quickly "Blacked" as amongst other things with rough riding they caused "Sea sickness.