LMS Patriot Project Updates

Absolutely no need! They're split pins, not wraparound pins. 30 degrees between the legs is all that is required, both legs split equally with regards to the hole. The legs aren't going to be able to close themselves. If they do, you're using the wrong fixing method.

 

Indeed of topic but....the Vam thread (oil industry) which you need a licence to cut...it's French of course....

 

Citation please?
You wouldn't get past scrutineering when I raced with pins at 30 degrees. The point Steve was making is that this sort of thing is opinion, not fact.
Also, with a preserved engine, how much choice do you have for fitment? The choice was made by someone else a long time ago

 

5944 is correct.
It's the railway way of doing split pins. I did them that way even when I worked in Lover's Walk depot.
There are a lot of railway specific ways of doing things.
Another example is not using a washer under a nut on bronze casting or spot faced cast iron.
Did you know taper pins are metric or imperial?
I saw some on an engine that come off NR with taper pins fitted the wrong way round.
I didn't get into an argument.

 

Again, where is "the railway way" written down?
Being picky, I would also point out that "absolutely" no need is wrong, unless modified by "in a railway context".
(I have just spent a fascinating few minutes following a lot of different, strongly-held views on the subject)

 

It's certainly different to practice in the motor trade, where I spent my working life.



It took time to get used to the railway methods when I started as a volunteer at Bridgnorth!

 

5944 works on emu maintenance on the big railway so I suspect he's following the rules where split pins are concerned.

 

I have no view as to whether he is or isn't.
That isn't the question.
The question is "where is the written info on that". What are "the rules"? The context is the question of working out what the rules are when people disagree. As is noted above, the view on split pins differs in the automotive industry.

 

I started the split pin discussion so I should say what I do. My background was 25 years with the NCB/British Coal. I was taught to never open split pins too much; 30 degrees was plenty. If you bent the legs too far they became difficult to extract and split pins are not a permanent fixing, they are meant to be removable. Another consideration was that, quite often you weren’t in a workshop environment with a ready supply of new pins so the old one had to be re-used.

 

The legs on those pins are way to long and the extra length serves no purpose.

 

The bottom one, I'll agree, Steve (it isn't one of mine!). However, that's how it's done in the motor industry, although generally we aren't talking bigger than 1/8". And we never reuse split pins.

 

Certainly in the bike trade, where I spent some time, split pins being pulled out by riders clothing and the like was considered a threat, and that was my understanding of why pins should be split as far as possible. My understanding was that 30 degrees would be considered too vulnerable to inadvertent removal. Of course these are pins small enough to be bent without tools.
And yes, never reuse.

 

In motorcycle racing, we always bend the important ones - eg the rear sprocket - all the way round. And never (hem) reuse them. And then sometimes lockwire from there (especially on the Island, which is very bumpy. R-clips get a cable-tie or lockwire at the bottom of the R)

I think the point here is lots of people saying "this is what I do/have been taught", with no printed citation.

 

This is the pattern that I expect to be used for the new Patriot wheel. It was paid for by Brian Oliver's Galatea consortium under the umbrella of 7029 Clun Castle when the Tyseley operation was still Birmingham Railway Museum. The pattern was made by the Kings Heath Pattern Company (which Companies House says was dissolved in 2010) under the supervision of Mike Lemon and was used for Galatea's new wheels and later the Patriot ones. These patterns last well if looked after so there shouldn't be any problem having a new wheel cast. The young lady in the photo is Hazel Evans who was a Galatea consortium member and became a director of the Galatea Trust, which is still in existence under Brian Oliver's son Russell.

It's sad to read that some supporters (hopefully a small minority) have given up on 5551, I think the project will get there in the end, and let's face it there's no point not continuing having got this far! I shall continue with my monthly donation.

Dave

 

Well it's a learning curve for the L.M.S. Patriot project engineering team they will get the loco completed in the end, errors have been made in constructing some of the components for the L.M.S. Patriot loco 5551 such as the wheel sets and the bogie frames, it dosent mean to say the engineering team have knowledge and skill to rectify the engineering flaws cos I believe they have in a outright way. It's a trial and error process constructing a new 5XP loco the L.M.S. Patriot team said that in one of the quarterly warrior mags it's all about learning how to fabricate and construct the new components for the 5551 loco a challenge and a learning curb for all involved constructing it, but it wont put me off a member of the project from donating a few £100+ a month even if it does take 3+ years to complete the ultimate new build 5XP.
Davo 56F

 

Just received latest newsletter, alternative scource found for previous S Africa supplier....

 

I'm sad to see from The Warrior that the Fowler 2-6-4T won't be going ahead now, but not surprised given the many challenges the Patriot project has to overcome. To quote the Fat Controller it would have been a 'really useful engine'

Dave

 

If the Patriot project hadn't run into so many serious problems, the Fowler 2-6-4T could have been halfway there by now. I can understand the team not being gluttons for any more punishment.

 

Not all doom and gloom, folks. Don't forget, there's the Fowler-esque LMS(NCC) mogul new build project, just across the Irish Sea.

 

No reason why a fowler tank couldn't be done... Doesnt need the patriot group to. Be involved really although it would be nice