FR & WHR & WHHR News

I wonder if the Double Double Fairlie was the day that carriage 2048 was commissioned. There is a clip of it at the end of the most recent edition of Moving Pictures.



That said, the railtour that had 10 non-corridor coaches and Prince and Palmerston made me smile.

 

The updates from Barrie Hughes' www.isengard.co.uk website have been interesting over the past few days. It seems the FfR has more potential custom than accommodations. Shades of the late 60s/early 70s, albeit for different reasons.

Obviously, with the ending of lockdowns not yet set in stone, the management, who must be as frustrated with the uncertainty as the rest of us, can be forgiven an approach which may seem unduly overcautious.

Better news comes with the welcome return of Lyd from overhaul, working a full line special over the WHR (with FR stock!), Porthmadog - Caernarfon & return, plus (drum roll, please) Blaenau Ffestiniog again features in the timetable.

 

There is of course a world of difference between the words interesting and accurate.

 

Which is why I was at pains in my OP to not draw any conclusions as to why, when custom seems to be there, additional trains can't be organised. I do feel for railway managements in these trying times.

I always enjoy Barrie's site (and eagerly anticipate the appearance of NG15 No.134 in traffic), but in this instance, feel the situation is so unfamiliar to all, that getting (all our) lines back up and running smoothly is bound to produce the odd hiccup, more especially when governmental pronouncements concerning what can and can't (or might and shouldn't) be done lack the sort of clarity which any business's planning requires ...... even though (mostly) forgivably so, in this instance.

Dunno about anyone else, but I've never known a situation remotely like the lockdowns and I'm a crusty old fart who's seen, if not 'all of it', then 'a fair bit of it'. The underlying situation remains a long ways south of 'ideal'.

 

There's some video of the miniature railway in Minffordd Yard on my YouTube channel; it was taken at the 1993 Hunslet Hundred weekend:

 

As it was such a nice day on the Sunday, we joined the throng on the beach at Black Rock Sands. However, I did take some photos and video during the rest of our week in Porthmadog and the first short clip is now on my YouTube channel. Further videos and photos will be put on YouTube and Flickr as time allows, but this the only one I've had time to edit so far:



Hope you like it.

Ron.

 

Looks like I managed to avoid your camera on that occasion! - I recall I was working the top station (though as a nearly 15 year old at the time, I was more likely getting in the way of the person *actually* operating the top station!). The unpainted wooden coaches seen in the video are the ones from the CJ&PR, and sat, bogieless, rotting away for several years after this Gala in Minffordd Yard.

John

 

There's a spare crew lurking in the works for the FR services who are there every day. If they're not required, then they do jobs around the shed, if somebody says "we need train x" then they go out and form that service.

What you are seeing is a lot of supposition from the person who updates that website. For example if the "Mountain Prince was fully booked by midday" that means that the service provision is correct as there was capacity in the morning and that was taken up, then the system works. Likewise, if there's capacity on the later afternoon service in the morning, then you fill that up to maximum your income.

To open up a 1000 involves doing it sufficiently early to enable it to be booked up, whilst having a 1500 available means getting the on the day people sorted for a trip out.

 

Good points, but the question I'd ask is how many people tried to book and couldn't.

 

Leaving personalities aside, I note it's been many moons since regular ad-hoc amendments to increase services has been an issue. So many, in fact, that it likely predates current working (and ticketing) arrangements, plus predating the reinstated WHR in toto, never mind predating today's generation of managers, most of whom are now younger than me!

I do recall, back in the 70s, the Snowdon Mountain timetable came with the caveat that any service would only run with (the equivalent) of 10 return tickets being sold. Whether some variant of that'd be a practical option, I'd not care to speculate, merely advancing the comment as 'food for thought'.

Another point which occurs concerns provision evening 'dining' (of fish'n'chip' etc.) services. Reason? I noted the IMR resumed theirs at the earliest opportunity. If the visitor demographic suggests generating sufficient custom - and assuming 'one engine in steam' might be possible above Blodge, or on a section of the WHR (admittedly, Penrhyn and/or Britannia Bridge plus Cei Pawb crossing arrangents would need to be workable) - there may be a useful revenue steam to be had there. Of course, Gwynedd is a lot more accesible for day trippers than Douglas, meaning many punters will be back over the border by the evening, but if enough are on 'staycations' (horrid term, sorry), it'd likely be practical. Shades of the Sunday booze trains of yore?

I guess the meaningful metric will be how passenger numbers stack up against booking levels for local accommodation. Of course, that doesn't help much when trying to predict day tripper numbers, beyond any period for which you can have reasonable confidence in weather forecasts, but it'd at least give hard pressed timetabling staff some sort of baseline to work from. Boy, am I glad sorting out this year's running schedules isn't my problem!

 

One very significant difference is that the Island still has closed borders. That means you've got the local population and that's it. I think you have to add a bit of something to keep drawing in the punters.

On running issues, add in that there is a decent chance that anybody ill will have to self isolate, so your absence numbers will be all over the place...

 

(With apologies for thread drift). Just checked, here's the latest on travel to/from IoM:
https://covid19.gov.im/general-information/current-travel-restrictions/

Edit to remove paragraph. There's currently NO general tourist access

[\End of Digression]

Re: extending services into the evening, I'd imagine there's no consideration beyond what already exists for daytime operations. "Is it economically viable?" and "Is it actually do-able?" both need to return a 'yes'.

In common with everywhere else, swollen visitor numbers when there's little or no competition from package holidays is one thing, enticing folks to return when there once again is, well that's another matter entirely. I'd venture to suggest that how things are handled this year will have a lasting effect on the market in years to come and it'd be woefully short-sighted to not keep that in mind. If there can be shown to be opportunities to be had, it'd be pain daft not to seize them and build on them for future years.

If (and this needs to be answered) there are significant numbers staying in Gwynedd, or anywhere else and there's nothing to do in the evenings, what does that do to any desires to return in future? If 90% of FfR/WHR passengers are day trippers, obviously there's likely little or no advantage to be had.

One thing I'd mention is that I wasn't thinking in terms of all-singing, all-dancing multi course silver service, reasoning that the sort of issues you mention would make a more restricted and targeted menu a far more realistic aspiration as things stand. You know the sort of thing, fish & chip supper, pie & mash ..... certainly nothing more complex than a pre-booked curry menu.

 

I'd have thought that an issue is the ability to strengthen sets if there is increased demand. The three England locos are limited in how much they can pull, and I guess that there may not be the coaches set up to add extra coaches to services hauled by the Hunslets if those trains fill up. You can't just light up a Fairlie if all of sudden a load of people decide they want to travel - you can double head but that isn't ideal. Finally, I'd imagine that there are limits on space at TyB. (Although the charter that ran from BF to TyB was 10 so maybe there aren't).

 

How much more by way of serviceable heritage stock is there? I've not seen this much of their superb collection of original and recreated carriages in frontline service since ...... well, come to think it, since for ever!

To judge by recent weeks, I'm guessing at least one of the double engines is being kept warm, if not in 'light steam', or full standby.

Although an evening service could utilise one of the three current sets, that'd dictate decamping for chow. That might prove a more economically viable option, short term, but based on what's been achieved with the WHR fleet, perhaps the management already have an eye on returning the modern kit to action and an evening service (reasonably marketable as 'panoramic') might be just the way to get 'em out and earning again. Surely it's got to happen at some point?

 

Interesting re digression. My contacts on the island are saying it's very much only for family visiting and the like.

The WHR would make for a fantastic evening silver service run wouldn't it? I guess almost impossible logistically.

I think if demand is there they should go for it, my point about the Island was more indicative of the market they felt they had, starting supper trains almost before re-starting running.

 

Mike is correct - close family, property owners and essential workers only at the present time. It is planned to open up at the end of the month subject to the situation in the U.K.
Even without visitors the railway has been very busy as locals are enjoying their 'staycations'. As I think I mentioned previously the dining train began on the very first day that the IMR restarted and is booking up rapidly. It is very gratifying to see how well Islanders are supporting their railways and other attractions. It is also a bit of a 'sock in the eye' for the DoI minister who thought that, without visitors, it wasn't worth re-opening the railways "as the locals wont use them". I think he may be in for a nasty surprise in the September elections!
Ray.

 

Cheers for clarifying Ray. From Faceache piccies, I honestly thought the Island was opening up already. All very encouraging (and I've amended my post accordingly). The IoM railways must be about the only ones in these islands to have got any benefit whatever from the damned lurgi. The opportunity arose to market services to residents and the railways have risen to things magnificently. I'm always banging on about ensuring heritage lines are firmly rooted in their communities and that's precisely what the IMR MER and GGR seem to be doing. Here's to hoping this welcome reconnection becomes a permanent one.

Agree with @Bikermike re: WHR. I wonder whether there might be a low season opportunity, marketing a Pont Croesor service for twitchers, during the nesting season? If the number of birdwatchers in the Adur, Arun, Ouse and Cuckmere valleys down here is anything to go by, with Bywyd Gwyllt Glaslyn (Wildlife Centre) almost next to PC station, maybe there's some scope for a mutually beneficial arrangement? Not too sure how good a set of mobile hides a rake of BugBoxes and the Sentry Van would make, but it's a quite appealing picture (to me, at any rate) and there's a lot of marsh with precious little access out there, plus the birds must be pretty used to trains by now!

 

There isn't much heritage rolling stock not in use. 15 is the only really useful vehicle, and that is used sparingly due to its expensive paint job. There is one open bug box, the 4w Ashbury No 10, and the flying bench. The last one requires a member of staff on board, so not ideal for social distancing. There are two 4w brake vans with passenger accommodation but they are often required for infrastructure trains etc. There are also two brake vans with no passenger accommodation. No good if you like windows.

Anyway making the trains longer misses the point of why they were short in the first place. If you turf everyone off a full 12 coach train at T-y-b, how are you going to maintain social distancing? Especially when they all make a b line for the cafe at once.

Tim

 

Amidst all this coaching and advice from the sidelines and concentration on great ideas for using vintage stock, bigger engines etc one key ingredient is being missed. People.

Without staff, and it's not so long ago that the FR/WHR had to make people redundant, trains can't run. Volunteers have other things to do around their time at the railway such as families and work, and those laid off may not be clamouring to get back and chance their liveliehoods. bill paying ability etc again. There are limits on working hours too.

11th Commandment for those running a Heritage Railway is Thou Shalt Never Be Right.

 

God save us from volunteers with defensive Jesus complexes.

Those on the sidelines have also been the ones who have been asked time and time again to dig into their pockets to save the railway and to protect those local jobs (at the same time as their own jobs have been under threat, who have lost their own jobs, are struggling to get back into work etc). I am pretty sure that it wasn't just the volunteers who coughed up the dough.

The questions about whether the railway could run more services or longer services were hardly accusations of incompetence, poor management etc. People are allowed on a discussion forum to ask if services could be expanded and to reflect on the limits/problems of doing that.