LMS Black 5 5025

The best is an A4. The rest of you can argue among yourselves about second place.

 

Better than a V2?

 

If I can remind you what you're replying to, I think the A4s were better express steam locomotives than the V2s.

 

Is that enthusiast best, shedmaster best, CME best or director best? Bet they aren't all the same...

 

Black fives had smaller wheels and no splashers

 

Leander is correct in black, several were painted in this style in early BR days, although to be absolutely accurate for this engine it should have BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender rather than the totem. A red Black five is just wrong.

 

They did two I liked, Sugar and Moves like Jagger.

A maroon black 5 would just be totally wrong.

 

John

For 5690 you are quite correct. Interestingly, I do have copy of a photo of 5699 in the livery currently carried by 5690, ie. the lion, not BRITISH RAILWAYS.

All of which has nothing at all to do with 5025.

JS

 

Some of the recent posts on this thread, as well as having minimal relevance to 5025, also are not comparing like with like. A large locomotive intended to pull a heavy train at fairly high speed or a light train at very high speed is a very different beast from a middle-sized locomotive intended to pull a variety of trains (hence the term "mixed traffic") but not very heavy ones nor very fast.

Apropos the particular comparison between Jubilees and Black 5s, one reason for the Jubilees to have three cylinders, besides their derivation from the Patriots, is better balancing at high speed.

Apropos the multiple design modifications to the Black 5s versus none to the B1s, the latter were built over a shorter period before the BR Standards were introduced. The features that Steve points out in post #242 might well have been changed in later production batches if there had been any but were possibly not considered to justify modification to existing stock.

 

The Standard 5s are largely equivalent to the LMS ones in size and capability, but then so are Halls and B1s. How much of the detailed design was the same as the LMS ones and how much was different?

 

From what I've read, the Std 5 boiler and cylinders were derived from the LMS Class 5, with LNER standard 6'2" wheels and Lairds-type slidebars.

Richard.

 

Someone may know the answer to a mystery with the Standard Fives. Most of them had the infamous ‘bacon slicer’ reverser but those with Caprotti valve gear had the standard LMS type but why?

 

Interesting question, I'd never thought of that, but would also be interested to know.

Richard.

 

Neither the RCTS book on the Standard 5s or the BR Instruction Book supplement for the Caprotti Standard 5s mentions the changes to the reverser unit in the cab, surprisingly. I only have an arrangement drawing of the cambox drive and reversing gear. This shows a rather lightweight reverser in the cab with, as you say, an LMS style operating handle. This reverser unit appears to be similar to that fitted to the LMS caprotti 5s.

 

Isn't the comparison with similar but different locos from other companies wrong. Surely a better measure should be whether they are an improvement on the locos that they were replacing and whether they resolved the 'problems' they were supposed to resolve.

 

5025 is now in the carriage shed for painting.

 

Are we going to see a brass plaque saying "REBUILT, AVIEMORE, 2021'?

 

There aren't any plans to do so.

 

It's a nice touch on EV Cooper.

 

Have to say even in primer 5025 looks bloody impressive.