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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. pgbffest

    pgbffest New Member

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    There is a charter booked to meet this train in July, but I believe it is more to do with the "Snowdonia and Northern Fells" package on the RTC website and NOT the day trip railtour. However, please contact your charter organiser for advice.
     
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  2. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    Brilliant thank you, I will give RTC a ring tomorrow and ask about it
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Health Warning: This isn't going to be one of my customarily jaded diatribes!

    Actually, if I didn't share this clip, I'd consider myself a complete rotter .... it's that good.

    Starting with a time lapse view of construction of "The Pickering" replica, via the the test run, behind Welsh Pony to Minffordd (boy, is that a pairing that just looks ..... totally right), the clip finishes with the delivery to it's new home at the WHHR. The carriage's paintwork, which I'd describe as 'rich bottle green' is (and please pardon the vernacular) just totally f*cking stunning!!

    If you'll indulge a cynical old fart his opinion, this, bar none, is the archetypal NG carriage. My truly heartfelt congratulations to the maginficent team Blodge on a job very well done indeed and to those visionary folks at the WHHR for their decision to fund the recreation of this very fine vehicle, a most fitting addition to their fleet. May it long serve them well.

    You may spot that in certain places, even with today's more generous loading gauge, the carriage's extreme width, across the footboards, is still a mighty tight fit on the FfR.

    So, shut up already Howard and post the clip in question. Here it is folks, from F&WHR [19'36"]. Enjoy! :)

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...wqsBegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0ms8_g02agLMWB7UvZ7dWt
     
  4. bantamd14

    bantamd14 New Member

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    Does anyone know if the Baldwin 608, is coming out to play anytime soon?
     
  5. pgbffest

    pgbffest New Member

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    It might want some wheels first!
     
  6. Paul.Uni

    Paul.Uni Well-Known Member

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    Latest 'Moving Pictures' on Youtube:


    At about 13:50 it states that K1 will be operating on the WHR on 18th & 19th September
     
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  7. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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    Afternoon All,

    I can't compete with 'Moving Pictures', but I've optimistically put the fourth part of the video that I shot on Bank Holiday Monday on YouTube in the hope that folks might like it. Here it is if you'd like t have a look:



    TTFN,

    Ron.
     
  8. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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    Afternoon All,

    I'm still busy editing the video footage that I shot during my recent week in Porthmadog and the latest offering is a short film of the Double Fairlies working the trains to Beddgelert. It starts off at Cae Pawb, and then moves to the Aberglaslyn Pass. The final shots are of the train departing from Beddgelert on the return journey to Porthmadog:



    Hope you like it.

    TTFN,

    Ron.
     
  9. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    As we're a few days past the first anniversary of Welsh Pony's return to the land of the living, does anyone please have a handle on the official view of it's performance? I recall one early (unspecified) problem, well within any reasonable definition of a 'snagging phase', but only noting one failure since, it seems, at least to this outsider, that the loco has (a) seen a hellavalot lot more use than anyone might have expected and (b) done so with remarkably few issues.

    Looking at various clips, at extra 6" on the wheelbase seems to make a very big difference to it's gait, compared with Nos.2 & 4.
     
  10. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Considering the fact the vast majority of Welsh Pony is brand new essentially, it's no wonder the engine has thrown up few issues. Plus the 'Small Englands' despite their age have lasted as long as they have for a good reason, being solid built locomotives, and I have no doubt the same can be said for their 'Large England' cousins.

    It is crazy to think though that so long has past since a Large England was in working order, there's no one left alive that can actually recall what their performance was like. A similar situation with the LSWR T3 being restored by the Swanage Railway, with only a few written records to specify what they were like in service.

    It has been great to see Welsh Pony get so much usage, after so many decades out of use and somewhat the black sheep of the Ffestiniog engines.
     
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  11. meeee

    meeee Member

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    The small England ceased to exist after the 1890s. The ever resourceful William Williams essentially made them into large England's. The only hangover from their former selves being the shorter wheel base.

    Apart from a tendency to get stuck in dead centre, Welsh Pony is quite capable of the trains running at the moment. I wouldn't say it is anymore powerful than Palmerston. It does ride a bit better though. Prince is by far the worst and clatters about a lot. Possibly because of the extra weight on the back.

    Personally I prefer Palmerston but these things are always subjective.

    Tim
     
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  12. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Hey that's no way to speak of his royal highness!!
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I am not sure black sheep but more the changing nature of traffic patterns. This is my recollection of things and it may well be wrong.

    Many years ago I had a conversation with someone who recalled that in the 1970s the argument of FR management was the Double Fairlies were a luxury item and you only needed them in the high summer, but that what the line needed was more locos like the Hunslets.

    The rebuilding of Prince produced a decent loco but one that needed a pilot on anything over 6 coaches. I can say I have done a trip on 7 with it. Likewise, the rebuilding of the Alco was supposed to give an engine that could haul 10-11 coaches. I have done a trip on it with 11 as well. However, for various reasons these rebuilds did not produce the expected results - the Alco did not last hauling 10-11 for very long.

    Furthermore, the shift from the shorter frequent trains ie 4 sets @30-45 min intervals needing 5 locos in steam of the early 80s was replaced by the hourly service of 3 sets (or two sets in the low season) needing only 3 locos but longer trains, meant that the Fairlies became day in day out locos. The Fairlie of choice would be EoM which until DLG came along was pretty much Evan Davies' personal loco.

    My recollection is that the argument in the 80s was that Welsh Pony i) needed everything replacing, ii) would give you a loco that could only manage 5 and thus would not be any use except perhaps in very low season. @Pete Thornhill has if I remember correctly, mentioned in the past standing in the cab of the plinthed Welsh Pony. I can remember standing in the loco and thinking that it was basically a very very rusty shell and the best that could be hoped for is that one day the FR would have a large enough museum for it to reside with Princess, and hoping the youth of Porthmadog wouldn't trash the loco too much before then.

    But there you go, things change and yay Welsh Pony is back and it is great to have three Englands in use. Certainly not something I would have imagined in the 1980s when Prince would be piloted by Upnor Castle on anything over 5.

    Edit - The railway has long had an argument that it needs something similar to the Hunslets. The Peckett, Alco, Prince as locos that could provide economical power on shorter trains but have the power for the heavier trains. More recently, the pitch for Taliesin and Lyd was that they could do this ie be efficient on trains of 6-9. (Again, going off of memory the argument was that a double Fairlie only makes financial sense on loadings over 10 - happy to be corrected on this). All of these were more attractive options than trying to restore Welsh Pony.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  14. bantamd14

    bantamd14 New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I was aware that it had had some problems, but assumed they had been resolved.
     
  15. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Good memory, I did indeed stand on it in the 80s, remember seeing it in the 90’s too. Always thought it was a shame, I didn’t expect to see it as it is now, that’s for sure.
     
  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Are we then to do what the LMS did with the Black 5s, ignore significant differences and claim they're all one class? Shock .... horror! :Woot: To me, 4'-6" wheelbase still equals "small" and 5'-0" "large", so there! ;)

    More seriously though, I'm surprised to learn of differences between riding characteristics on Nos.2 and 4. as I seem to recall that, yonks ago now, in an effort to improve the ride, Prince was equipped with something akin to an articulation arrangement between loco and tender. Was that the case and if so, is it still running in that condition?

    For the record, after nearly a quarter century back from the dead, I still have to pinch myself when I see what I remember seeing as little more than a very sorry looking pile of scrap on wheels (Palmerston) looking superb at the head of a train.
     
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  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Given the success of Welsh Pony as a restored but not beefed up England, makes me wonder if one day there might be an argument for Livingstone Thompson to be restored as a heritage Double Fairlie.
     
  18. Selsig

    Selsig Member

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    Not really - boiler is utterly worn out, superstructure is paper thin, bogies are a hodgepodge of discarded parts put together for display. If you were to restore LT, you'd probably end up throwing away everything above and below the boiler cradle, at which point (as discovered in 1971) you might as well build a new one, and keep the scrap bits looking nice in a museum.

    John
     
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  19. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Is that not that different to Welsh Pony? The argument you are making is the same argument that was made to not restore WP or indeed Palmerston back in the 80s and 90s.

    I am not saying that it will or that it ought to happen, but considering how unlikely WP looked as a restoration candidate when it was plinthed in Porthmadog in the 1980s, or Palmerston in Glan-y-mor, I would not consider it totally beyond the realms of possibility at some point in the future for LT to be revisited as a potential project. The only engine I can see never being restored to working condition is Princess but even then I would never say never.

    As my original post said - positions and attitudes have changed over the last 40 years and I am sure that they will change again over the next 40 years. I would never rule anything in or out.

    Personally, I would rather see the Alco and Earl back in action and LT serves as a useful bit of publicity in York. But if people are going to decide they want to new build a single Fairle, or an 1863 England, restore Welsh Pony, or the Kerr Stuart, I don't think it impossible that someone in the future will decide that a restored LT is the project they want to do and people will decide they want to fund it to happen.

    Edit: I can just as easily see a situation in 40 years time where attitudes have changed, and Linda and Blanche are sitting nice and warm in a museum, while the new build Violet and Pamela run up and down the line because restoring 150 year old locos to the point where they become Trigger's broom is seen as the wrong thing to do and new build is seen as more economical and a better heritage option.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  20. talyllyn1

    talyllyn1 Member

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