Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Actually the LNER was a paragon of diversity, in addition to racehorses:
LNER Standard classes:

A1: Trade Union leader (60114)
Characters/places from Sir Walter Scott's novels
Pre-grouping Chief Mechanical Engineers
Pre-grouping railway companies
An aircraft! (60163)

A2: (and sub classes) Characters from Scottish history/mythology
Their designer (60500 - spit!)
(60525 - better!)
A cannon (60504)

A3: A sixties junkie/pop singer (60047) - tongue-in-cheek
Commemoration of 100 years of railways (60056)
The last chairman of the GNR (60102)
A royal personage (60054)

A4: An ethereal phrase from a poem (60014)
A metal, liquid at normal temperature (60015)
Names in keeping with the Silver Jubilee train (60016-17)
"Golden" names associated with the West Riding woollen industry (60030/31/
LNER 4496 - Golden Shuttle - prior to being replaced by the Supreme Allied
Commander Europe)
Birds (some replaced by LNER directors, immediately prior to nationalisation)
Countries of the British Empire
Chief Mechanical Engineer of the LNER

V2: An express parcels service (60800)
A couple of NE schools
A couple of NE Regiments

B1: How many different dialect names can you find for an antelope?
(and the world's shortest nameplate!)
Some minor LNER dignitaries

B17/B2: A royal and other worthy residences
City of London
East Anglian
A regiment

D49: Counties through which the LNER ran
Foxhunts, primarily in LNER territory

....and that's before we get onto the pre-grouping stuff (more Walter Scott, Scottish Glens, WW1 generals, WW1 battles, GCR Directors, NE cities)

This is all done off the back of a fag packet, before I go off to watch Jack save the world, so apologies if I've missed anything significant!

 

The idea that the Bulleids were supposed to still be in service around 1980 comes from the projected cost savings from rebuilding the locos, i.e in 1955 they figured they would be saving oil and maintenence coats over 25 years- of course many light pacifics never even recieved an overhaul after being rebuilt as they only lasted another 4 or 5 years.
Personally I think it was all a conspiracy , after all the other regions saw how well they went in their unmodified form during the locomotive exchanges they needed to bring them down to their levels \/

 

James... I have to ask this my friend, but were you there? As for coal, oil and WATER; I've had many a bad time on Wadebridge!

 

I think what twofnine is saying is that when steam was on its way out and diesel hydraulics came in; they failed more oftern than not and steam; being Bulleids were on standby!!! Just shows what is more reliable in my humble opinion....

 

Because of the weight of the bridge??

 

It wasn't that at all! BR planned to bring steam and electrify the railways; so steam would be existent! Trouble is if you look back now; what would have been better?

 

The rebuilt versions were similar to the rebuilt Merchant Navy Class design of R. G. JarvisR. G. Jarvis

Ronald G. Jarvis was a British locomotive engineer....
. As a result of the rebuilding and the implementation of Walschaerts valve gear, the rebuilt examples were slightly heavier, and were prone to hammerblowHammerblow (railway)

Hammerblow is a force that steam locomotives and some diesel locomotives create as they move....
on the track, a complaint that was not evident with the original design. The increased weight reduced their route availabilityRoute availability

Route Availability is a system by which railway lines in the United Kingdom are graded....
rating, and rebuilt examples could not be used on certain routes previously available to un-rebuilt examples, such as the Ilfracombe BranchIlfracombe Branch Line

The Ilfracombe Branch of the London & South Western Railway ran between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe in North Devon....
.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics ... ntry_Class

 

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics ... ailability

RA of a line

 

And there was me thinking it actually started at Exmouth Jct Shed to Exeter St Davids all the way to Ilfracombe and either the train was split at Barnstaple Jct and either had a banker or had a banker waiting down at Ilfracombe?

 

The ACE was split into 3 or 4 portions at Exeter Central, the MN went LE to Exmouth Jnct. The 3 unconverteds were in the sidings(now a car park). First portion went to Ilfracombe, 2/3rd portions went to Plymouth via Crediton, and Bideford/Bude via Barnstaple!

 

Plymouth via Crediton? :-k Isn't Plymouth in the other direction? Penzance???

Then you had the GWR locomotives taking over????

 

Plymouth via Crediton, Okehampton the old SR route, now closed to traffic

Yes FGW do run Sundays Exeter to Okehampton, but beyond is shut

 

The oppsosite direction from Ilfracombe towards Exeter do you mean?

At Ilfracombe you used to get a couple of Unconverteds sitting down the sidings at Ilfracombe waiting to take a portion back up the bank or to take over.....

 

From Exeter St Davids the Southern trains for Plymouth and Barnstaple headed east to Cowley Bridge when they diverged off. just beyond Crediton the Southern line to Plymouth and the Barnstaple line diverged.

 

A set of photos taken on 4 Sept 1964 showing the last Atlantic Coast Express between Waterloo and Exeter Central, including the Ilfracombe portion being taken forward by a Hymek and the Padstow portion by 34015. That day was the last run using the high speed timings (Waterloo to Salisbury in 80 minutes) and was naturally packed with fans. The run to Salisbury was quite fast, but the train was eased on the descent to Axminster, etc. By this date panniers were used as the bankers up from St Davids, all the older SR locos had gone by then.

http://nick301.photos.us.com/c1225803.html

 

There isn't half some rubbish posted on here sometimes.

First of all, 'twoofnine'; I'm not trying to question whether you were there or not, but your description of the properties of the rebuilds (de-tuned Bulleids) doesn't half resemble that on Wikipedia. And we all know what people think of Wikipedia as source material.

In respect of the lines in the West, why would it be decided to maintain a stock of original Bulleids for use on the Ilfracombe road, when it was planned to close the Southern routes west of Exeter anyway? The requirements of locos for the Withered Arm had no bearing whatsoever on the decision to cease the rebuilding programme. Bear in mind that the Southern line that actually connected 2 cities, as opposed to a few random shacks and a farm, was already passed for the rebuilt pacifics (Exeter to Plymouth via Oke and Tavistock if you didn't get the subtle hint) and that was also earmarked for closure.

It was originally planned to rebuild the whole fleet of light pacifics, but this was brought to an end once it became apparent that steam on the Southern region was going to come to an end sooner rather than later. Basically, the financial case for rebuilding the whole class no longer added up. It was nothing to do with a rickety old bridge on a run-down branch line.

In respect of a projected 'design life' beyond the 1960's, the key point with a lot of the rebuilds is that they may have been tired towards the end of Southern Steam, but that was more to do with the general run-down of steam power than any inherent problems with the locomotives themselves. Locomotive overhauls all-but ceased towards the end, and came to a complete end in September 1966 (602 Squadron if you're interested), and if the previous maintenance and overhaul regime had been kept in place then I have no doubt that the rebuilds could have gone on for many more years than they did.

As it was, once it was decided that the Bournemouth road was to be electrified then the need for the Bulleids diminished, so as the locos were just going to be withdrawn it made no financial sense to overhaul locos, to maintain the stock of spares (cheaper to rob a withdrawn example...), hence the further decline in the condition of the locos.

 

Firstly, may I say what a nice collection of photographs you have put together over the years. Ive spent a good hour so far looking over them.

Regarding the picture of 35022, and Nine Elms Driver. Please note that Nine Elms men, only took LE from NE to Wloo, and relieved by Salisbury Men whom took the train forward to Salisbury. Nine Elms men did have the turn Sundays only. Those with a ? I will try and assist, after I have gone through them. But of course 45 years is a long time, as we are finding out at our Nine Elms reunions, and on our website!

 

First of all Stewie, I agree with you on Wilkepedia. I have given you the facts concerning Original, Unconverted West Countries. In fact there was a fire some years ago, caused by the oil Bath leaking oil. and was an Eastleigh Works job. I cannot recall the number, but certainly the casing had gone.

Yes, the run down of Steam Power was purposely done by BR. I havent denied that fact, and so were the crews costs, of which I was one.

Facts: LE Wloo to Nine Elms MN, or WC disposal 90 minutes including taking coal and water. 60 minutes preparation, again coal and water. that is 2.5 hours + pit time 30 minutes. BR wanted these locos done quicker, so it wasnt long before 12 hours was achieved. Yes we worked hard, but it all added to costs.

If there are any more questions, I will gladly answer them!

 

There's nothing wrong with Wikipedia as long as the information is verified with other 'hard' sources, and not been subjected to the flights of fancy that sometimes appear. As a Wikipedian in my spare time, I try to take care that everything I write can be traced to other materials. I hold my hands up and admit that I have edited the WC/BB article (and several dozen other railway-related articles), and I think it gives a fairly decent introduction to the topic. All the same, that's all it is, an introduction which means an element of oversimplification, and reading about it is not the same as experiencing them first hand.

 

Its not intended as a dig at yourself. I'm just naturally sceptical about something that can so easily be amended to suit someone's needs. See previous activities by most political parties, if that's not too political a statement on here...