Bluebell loco crisis deepens

I quite agree, there's certainly only a faint hold on reality in a fair few posts. I like the idea of 'Fantasy Heritage Railway' though, how much do we get to spend...?!

 

This is a heritage railway - you'll have to fundraise before you can spend anything!

However, there will be a "transfer window" during the closed season - between Santa Trains and Easter - to try to swap any unwanted items (locos, volunteers etc). And transfer will be subject to the "authenticity" rule - only LNER locos on LNER carriages etc.

Richard

 

So instead of dodgy foreign owners with convictions for corruption, does 'FHR' have the Heritage Lottery Fund?

 

Agreed 100%. SR 53 is somewhat less perfect unless you can scratch-build an LSWR "Gate" set to go with it.

 

Couldn't agree more.

It might be worth pointing out that 'Dukedogs' did get on to SR metals via the DN&S line so it isn't altogether barmy to have the engine on the Bluebell.

Personally I would be alarmed if the BRPS wanted to sell it, but I really don't think they do. If the BRPS continue with the present policy of hiring it out to interested railways it can make a reasonable sum on the deal and the loco will act as an ambassador for the Bluebell. I agree with an earlier post that it looked terrific on the SVR with a train of GW stock but (fantasy land again) that seems to be a good advert for having four or five GW carriages on the Bluebell rather than getting rid of the engine!

One of the more unfortunate aspects of railway preservation has been the tendency of the railways to only preserve articles and rolling stock from the railway of their dreams. So the Bluebell only does Southern, the GW Society will only preserve GW etc. The exception is the SVR which has been a model of good practice in this respect in having full trains of GW, LMS and LNER stock.

Because of this myopic view the practice of through trains and through carriages cannot be seen on most of the railways and opportunities to preserve examples of passenger and goods stock of been missed. Never mind, I am grateful for what has been done.


Regards

 

In my personal opinion, 9017 looked good working on the SR milk tank and the southern green coaches. might not be historically accurate but it looked superb, especially when you consider it is representative of far more of it's life than hauling the GWR carriages would be. Plus, it highlights something missing in a large part of preservation, the incursions by W*stern engines into SR territory, via the DN&S, the line to Weymouth and the Reading to Redhill route. OK the class of engine may not be 100% accurate for that but it's still representing a missing link in preservation.

 

Quite right.

I had to laugh when I was looking at the policy statements of a well known heritage railway recently, and noticed a particular clause in there that "all passenger service coaches, except Pullman Cars, shall be painted Southern Region style green", seemingly ignoring vast swathes of railway history in that area. How accurately is that representing the railway history that it claims to preserve?

I'm not saying that every passenger carriage should be painted in a different livery, just that rigid adherence to vehicles from one particular company is a distortion of railway history that may actually influence people to think 'that was the way it was'.

 

If a societies stated aims are a single company then there is nothing wrong with only wanting that companies items. By having stock from that one company it is actually more represntative of most lines, large parts of the country (particularly branch lines) would not have seen "foreign" stock. I believe that there is room for all types of preservation, and the Bluebell having 9017 (Berk of Early) may not be exactly right for that line but does represent what did happen on the DN&S with many outside framed elderly 4-4-0s based at Didcot.

 

It just seemed to me to be slightly contradictory to have one clause that stated that the fundamental aim of the organisation was to "...preserve and restore for the public benefit items of historical, architectural, engineering or scientific value in connection with railways", and then to go on and say that you can have any colour as long as its green.

Still, ultimately its their train-set and who am I to question it?

 

Yes, apart from the Southern turntable, 2 Midland vans, Midland crane, Southern Milk Tank, and replica of an engine which originally used Midland tooling. (Worrying trend here...)

You can only do so much. If you try and copy every aspect of railway operation, you run the risk of ending up with an incohesive rabble, representative of none of it.

 

I don't know that the Bluebell ethos is necessarily a Southern 'branch' of NRM. To me, it is first and foremost the first preserved standard gauge railway, and at that time anything steamy was welcome. I still remember my first visit in 1965, and the excitement of Dukedog and the Adams radial tank 488 double-heading. Not very authentic, but it now has its own nostalgia. And above all, it was fun!!

John

 

hi

i know this is slightly off topic a bit, but there is one loco you forgot to metion that the bluebell still owns. - Avonside Stamford

It been loaned to the rutland railway for years - why have something that hasn't been to the railway in years. Surely it could be a good idea to sell it off?

Ngaugekid

 

I think you will find that clause had something to do with presenting a smart (!) uniform rake of stock as keeping fixed rakes is not that practical when you consider maintenance & overhaul requirements. On the grounds of historical accuracy you are correct, though rakes of Mk1's are not really typical of the stock that would have been seen in pre-preservation days. I think Stewie on the railway concerned :smt002 the policy requires relaxing a little (Blood & Custard?) if only to get some colour!

 

Think that could be said of almost any preserved railway!

This thread seems to have attracted an awful lot of armchair loco superintendents, but reading it, I think the Bluebell may actually be in a far stronger position than many lines.

If I have understood correctly, you do not have to pay ANY loco hire charges?
How many staff do you employ on your MPD? Sounds like it's a lot less than the headcount at Grosmont!

I can understand enthusiasts wanting to see "big" engines, but if you are having to trim your budget for a few years, making do with smaller ones makes more sense. Probably lower overhaul costs (depending obviously on initial condition), and definitely lower running costs. Why burn a ton of expensive coal to get a WC off shed, when you can get a 4MT underway with half that? Take a look at what the Moors does with Class 4 locos - 7 coaches routinely, 8 at a push; you don't need anything bigger for your railway.

Really does sound like you're going through the sort of "growing pains" that seem to beset any railway that is in an expansion phase.

 

I think you will find that clause had something to do with presenting a smart (!) uniform rake of stock as keeping fixed rakes is not that practical when you consider maintenance & overhaul requirements. On the grounds of historical accuracy you are correct, though rakes of Mk1's are not really typical of the stock that would have been seen in pre-preservation days. I think Stewie on the railway concerned :smt002 the policy requires relaxing a little (Blood & Custard?) if only to get some colour![/quote:a428ys3o]
I'm not deliberately trying to set the cat among the pigeons here...! Well, not too much anyway!

I appreciate the reasons for it being done, and a uniform rake of stock does look a lot better than a rag tag mix of different liveries. I just think that to have a policy written on that level of formality can appear a bit inflexible, and dare I say it, a bit bloody daft. I agree with what was said previously in respect of the Severn Valley, I think that while having the fortune/planning to have a decent representative carriage fleet from most companies, it has struck the right balance with the various different company's stock; they are generally in an appropriate livery for the rake, but aren't so inflexible as to stipulate that all carriages must be the same livery.

Anyhow, I'm rambling...

 

Edward is talking sense here.

The railway doesn't pay hire fees for engines normally resident there ie those you'd find on the stock list but contribute to the overhaul.

Engines hired in for special events and the diesels are paid for in the usual way.

There are less than twenty staff at Sheffield Park MPD.

Class 4 power is the most the railway needs for a 6 coach train, the platforms at the Park can only fit 6 coaches anyway.

Do the growing pains usually attract such extreme feelings from members on other railways or is it just a few people with axes to grind?

Regards,
ILT

 

No it is nothing to do with an axe to grind, more like welcome to the real world and it is no good burying your head in the sand hoping it will all go away or having a one track mind.

There are also those who have made up their mind that their opinion is the only one, and anybody who challenges that opinion is dangreous to thier existance.

Regards
CW.

 

No it is nothing to do with an axe to grind, more like welcome to the real world and it is no good burying your head in the sand hoping it will all go away or having a one track mind.

There are also those who have made up their mind that their opinion is the only one, and anybody who challenges that opinion is dangreous to thier existance.

Regards
CW.[/quote:2oiwb8c3]

Bit below the belt isn't that CCT Man and I_Like _Trains???
Always an attack on railways this forum isn't it! We've all had bad experiences! Get over it people and enjoy what these lines are about for!!!

Cheers

Andy

 

It still aprorate (I think M7s were on the line in SR days). Gate stock were not on the Swanage Branch, you need scrath-build build some former LSWR carriages altered to 'Pull-Push' working (and yes I got that in the right order). I think a 56 foot long BCL (with driving wheels) and a re-framed 58 foot long 'third'. (I think, not sure totally, might be a 56 foot long Brake Third and re-framed Composite).

I know LSWR T1 class were regaulers on the Swanage Branch in SR days, and there is that boiler!!!