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Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interesting that you cant book tickets after the 19th of July yet on the Swanage website
     
  2. Dan Bennett

    Dan Bennett Member

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    There’s a link slightly further down the booking page for the 20th of July onwards
     
  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah! Far from obvious

    Mind you though the SVR website is a nightmare
     
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  4. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    It was made fairly clear (in several places, in several media - internal and external) last year, as COVID bit, that regular through trains would be on the back-burner until the core business was re-established, but that opportunities with no revenue risk or significant cost (such as internal crew training).

    I picked up this message despite living many miles from the railway (but with family living locally to Swanage).

    Given that it would be wildly premature to think that anything like stability has been reached with operations or finances of any railway at the moment, and given the huge cost implication of completing the regulatory process, I would assume that no news is because there is no news - the position is unchanged since the last news...
     
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  5. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    The last update from the Swanage Railway on the Wareham service project was from Nick Lloyd in June 2020 where although progress on the mainline licence was advanced, the project was in limbo.
    Since then passenger levels have on the SR and SWR have picked up. Other projects such as loco overhauls and the carriage shed have made progress. The training on the DMUs is progressing, So there was good reason the Wareham service could start July or August? (The DMU has 2 engines so could be reliable and if the worse came the 40 bus is running).

    Would be good for the SR management to make a public statement to confirm to those hopeing to use the Wareham train service, or the dining service this Summer if there is a chance of running at least limited services or if they are still in "limbo" till 2021?.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  6. Hirn

    Hirn Member

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    For three carriages: 6 engines each with a remotely controled clutch and gearbox and then each a final drive - carden shaft, flexible joints, gearing. Compares interestingly to a three car DEMU set, Hastings style: 1 engine and generator with 2 traction motors and their gearing.

    The DMU provides redundancy with so many engines but plenty of failure/inspection points, the DEMU is simpler with considerable inherent reliability. Rather better view out of the DMU and distinctly kinder to the permanent way.
     
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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think the Swanage Railway deserve to be cut a bit of slack over caution in introducing the service. I had a look at the timetable at Wareham: two trains an hour in each direction for most of the day on a Saturday. That's four movements per hour over Worgret Junction that you've got to slot your Swanage service into. A few minutes delay on the Swanage service (which, bear in mind, originates 10 miles away along a single track branch with limited crossing points) could have a big knock-on impact on your timekeeping on the mainline, and that is before you consider reliability of the rolling stock.

    Then consider the very mixed messaging there has been around re-opening dates from Covid, and the uncertainty in passenger flows that is likely to cause.

    The obvious comparator for mainline running is the NYMR running to Whitby. But I think they are very different operations. Firstly, the NYMR can use Whitby as a destination: the offer is essentially "travel by steam train to Whitby" whereas the Swanage offer is "start at Wareham to reach the steam trains (and the beach)". In other words, it is likely a significant proportion of NYMR passengers will go through to Whitby, whereas I suspect only a relatively small proportion of Swanage passengers are likely to change their behaviour from starting at Norden (by car) to starting at Wareham (by train). And secondly, though both operations involve mainline running, a mile on a two track electrified mainline with a frequent service has the potential to go wrong in timetable terms more rapidly than even six miles on a less frequently used branch line.

    If I were the SR management, I think in the current climate I would still be treading as cautiously as possible: the risk / reward feels heavily weighted towards risk.

    Tom
     
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  8. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    If I may give a correction, each 3 car set has 4 engines not 6, the clutch is a fluid coupling so no need for remote control. Each drive train has a fluid coupling, a free wheel, a cardan shaft and a final drive which includes the forward and reverse. Each drive train drives a belt driven alternator and a belt driven exhauster. As you say plenty of redundancy but so complicated.

    Gary ex Tyseley fitter.
     
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  9. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Tom is very right in his a assessment of things. The line to Whitby is a sleepy backwater. It is a good destination and when things run to time, all is well but, when things don't, it can be quite chaotic and that does happen quite regularly. It is not just NYMR trains running late, but frequently it is Northern. Whilst this frequently means NYMR trains being delayed at Grosmont and able to be reversed and back on their intended path, it can also means NYMR trains being delayed from leaving Whitby and, if you lose your path, that can put everything out for the day, even to the extent where you have to put on buses to solve problems not of your creation. People visiting Goathland expect the train that they planned to catch to run reasonably to time and if it doesn't arrive and you can't say when it will they soon get annoyed. Unlike some railways, NYMR services are not playing to an out and back on the same train audience. The same is true at Swanage. I have previously mentioned that a signal failure at Manchester Piccadilly can cause late running and even cancellation of NYMR trains leaving Pickering - it has happened more than once. A signal failure at Waterloo has the same potential to create chaos at Swanage. The N.R. section is also very much main line and Control will not think twice about cancelling Swanage trains so that the expresses can run. When you run on the big railway, you lose control to a much greater degree.
    Penalties for delays caused to others are also a potential worry and can soon rack up. the NYMR has to pay them when they cause late running by Northern. Fortunately, Northern have to pay the NYMR when they so likewise and, usually, the accumulative delay minutes stack in the NYMR's favour. But not always.

    It's probably not too well known but the NYMR is responsible for the North Norfolk Railway's trains to Cromer as they are operated under the NYMR's safety case. That line is also a bit of a backwater, unlike Wareham - Worgret Jcn. It is a brave decision to take on that risk.
     
  10. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    The passengers using the SWR connection at Wareham will be most likely new rather than those using the Norden car park? (Or just paying a bit extra for a scenic ride).
    The risk of timetabling problems was low during the 2017 60 days trial, which was considered a success As were the Sunday SWR and Saturday 73/4TC runs.
    Now SR has it's own DMUs and crew the risk of not paying it's way is also low.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-41656613
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
  11. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    As a working Swanage Railway volunteer, and speaking for myself. Yes I would very much like to see the Wareham service up and running, Yes I would very much like to see the dining service reinstated. However, I suspect like every other preserved Railway in England, Swanage Railway needs to walk before it can run. I do not know of any other railway that has recommenced running dining trains since covid.

    I still have my 2019 working timetable which shows a yellow 2 train service running on dates in April and May. A green two train (One steam, One Diesel)
    Tuesdays to Thursdays throughout June with a cream tea dining train on Wednesdays. Quite a stark comparison with 2020/2021!
    I am hopeful that passenger figures will improve but given that the Christchurch, Bournemouth and Poole are in the Covid Red zone (Delta varient)
    I would suggest that caution is the watch word. and yes, I would like to see progress towards being able to run a service to Wareham in 2022 or 2023 but
    with the government and advisors constantly moving the goalposts we will have to see what unfolds.
    Again, speaking for myself, Although I am happy to go and work in the signalboxes, I am still reluctant at 70+ to travel on any form of public transport at this stage, even on preserved railways.
     
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  12. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    Jun 2020. Service suspended, essential (invited) SR staff only. The country is silent, at a standstill. We patiently queue to get into a supermarket or wait for a delivery slot. There’s nothing else to do. Paint the fence. Tidy the shed. We’ve no idea what is ahead of us.

    July 2021 and look out of the window. Have you been doubly-vaccinated? Roads busy (ahem, Corfe, Wareham). Will it be mask-off Monday?

    I think it’s positive that people are interested enough in the Wareham service to want to talk about it and ask questions. We’re interested in how it’s going.

    Why is interest interpreted as hostile?
     
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The replies to this have mainly focussed on why the through service to Wareham isn't likely to happen for some time. That is entirely fair, but it doesn't alter the point that the SR ought to explain the situation clearly to all interested parties, particularly potential passengers and the bodies that have provided money.
     
  14. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    There are a couple of trains that have restarted dining trains since COVID - my wife and I went on one on the Strathspey a few weeks ago. But I think that dining services are much bigger share of the Strathspey's income and customer base than they are for Swanage, so there would be a stronger inclination to restart them. Different railways will have different priorities for restarting different services, and my expectation is that each railway knows what will be safest way of getting the biggest gain better than I will, so happy to let them make the call! My job is to cheer them on and, if possible, turn up and buy a ticket!
     
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  15. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    Even if SR were in a position to proceed with all haste, there will be a number of potential issues that (from a distance) I can see would be significant barriers at the present time, including the need to find the cash to put up the bond required in order to register (I don't know what this might be, but some years ago was into seven figures), unless a derogation is allowed there would also be the requirement to have contracts in place for replacement buses etc (contrary to another poster indicating it was fine because there are service buses on a parallel route, which would not meet the regulatory need for SR to be able to shift a train-load of passengers). From a distance, I just cannot see how it would be sensible for SR to proceed at the present time.

    In terms of communication, it was made clear in the publicly available newsletter at the end of February, that the priority would be the core service, and anything else would be dependent on progress with the governments 'Steps' and the availability of resources. Thus, projects for which funding has been sought and gained (e.g. Carriage Shed and T3) can proceed, whilst projects that would require SR to find significant funds from cashflow (such as establishing the Wareham operation) seem to sensibly remain on hold.

    Given that it has already been announced that Wareham services are on hold until the existing core service is fully up and running and sustainable again, I am not sure how many times you can say you are not going to do something you have announced is not happening yet!
     
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  16. bishdunster

    bishdunster New Member

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    Stunning view from the Corfe Castle webcam this morning, railway preservation is more than just trains.;)
     
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  17. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    Agree Corfe looks good on the webcam.
    I am not sure that a bus replacement contract will be needed as SWR (even though a bus company) does not have buses on standby for cancellations. I my experience with SWR they seem to have an arrangement rather than a contract with independent bus companies. Have been waiting for ages when a replacement bus service is promised and takes a long time to arrive. Even for planned work they use any of several different independent bus companies with different levels of service.
    SWR have cancelled the Corfe service rather than provide a replacement bus.
    https://railwayworld.net/2019/07/28/swr-cancels-its-seaside-special-again/
    https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2018/08/south-western-railway-train-to-corfe-castle-cancelled.html
    I can see an expensive bond required in order to register might be an issue.
    But again there has been no Wareham project update since June 2020.
     
  18. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    Bournemouth Echo Today; Sandbanks Peninsula closed off to parking on hottest day of year at 1000h Time to get that Swanage DMU running with hassle free parking at Wareham and Norden. Business in Swanage is missing out. This is the avenue of approach to be taking to the local authorities and assorted levels of bureaucracy. Let the Train take the Strain!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  19. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    Update made to Purbeck Community Rail Partnership (including local authorities and funders) in Sept 2020:
    MWy reported on a challenging year for SR. The railway had closed in mid-March and re-opened on 11 July, albeit with a restricted timetable and seat availability. August had seen a pleasing increase in visitor numbers, which meant that more trains were operated to cater. There were emerging plans for operating in the rest of the year. Clearly, it had not been possible to operate the Wareham Trial Service which had been planned. When lockdown came SR had been very close to obtaining its Operating Licence. The current hiatus meant that the process would have to be re-started when the opportunity arose. However, staff training had re-commenced and final work to the diesel multiple units continued. Looking forward, it was not possible to give a commitment to when the Trial Service could start. SR would not get any revenue support and so had to be sure that the time was right to start.​

    Nothing has changed since this update - it is entirely reasonable to see that now is not the right time to restart the process of becoming a regulated operator on the mainline, and that the focus of SR needs to be on surviving the rest of 2021 - anything else, would be foolish in the extreme - importing a huge increase in costs whilst suffering seriously reduced income for its existing core operations.

    A similar message was contained in various updates earlier this year - and nothing has changed.

    The point over buses is that SWR does have arrangements in place - as indicated, in order to achieve this they have agreements with multiple road operators. I may be wrong, but I have a remembrance that the SWR Corfe shuttles were operated under a provision that, for a limited number of days in a year a service can be operated as what is in effect a 'charter' rather than a regulated service (this was one of the reasons that the tickets to Corfe were 'add-ons') - whilst the 90 day trial would, I think, cross the boundary.

    Even if restarted now the consultation period for the licence application would not allow services to be run until later in the year - and with most railway companies struggling to staff the trains that already run, I can see that starting new experimental services will be low on many priorities within the wider industry.
     
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  20. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Sorry, where is the hassle free parking at Wareham? I hope you are not referring to the small station car park which is now pay by phone only?
     

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