If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bridge that Gap: Great Central Railway News

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Gav106, May 8, 2010.

  1. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks, Phil. It is a bit complex but still manages to progress very effectively.
    Mike
     
  2. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Human nature isn't logical; a glance at one's morning paper (physical or electronic) will show too many examples to count.

    Noel
     
  3. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It must be remembered that the present GCR has now run the line for longer that either the original GCR, the LNER or BR did! So how we got to where we are now is indeed complex.......but progress is, as you say, "....very effective"
     
    The Dainton Banker and jnc like this.
  4. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    TLDR: Past and Present Politics. That's why.
    I think I've made this point somewhere on NP before, but as there are 3 threads about the GCR/GCRN/Gap it's possible that was not on this.
    The organisation which spawned the GCRN was set up at the end of the 1980s when the old MoD depot at what is now the NTHC and Rushcliffe Country Park closed, and the track from there to just north of Rushcliffe Halt was thus no longer required for MoD trains. It was decided to set this up as a separate company to the GCR so that is one of the companies got into financial difficulty it would not risk taking the other one down with it.
    So far so good, but then you have the human aspect of it - some people who joined the North end were volunteers who had been at Loughborough and for whatever reason didn't like stuff that was happening, management, politics, whatever (I'm sketchy on the details as I wasn't around then!), but they still wanted to 'play trains', so the GCRN was a great option for them. Then you had many volunteers who joined either organisation in the intervening years, but not necessarily both, and as there was perhaps a less than ideal amount of connection and cooperation, each railway started to develop, among its volunteers at least, its own identity, and the two grew apart. Fast forward to when I joined the GCRN in 2008 and at Ruddington there was very much a feel that Loughborough only wanted the Northern section for the mainline connection, or that if they did want the rest of the track, they would take over the GCRN and completely ignore all competencies attained at Ruddington up til then, which would force all GCRN volunteers to start from scratch. I cannot comment on how accurate these claims were or how they came to be, but certainly there was ill feeling at Ruddington, such that a facebook group was started called 'Widening the Gap' which many GCRN volunteers joined. A joke it may have been, but that gives you an indication of where many GCRN volunteers were at. Regardless of the context of how the GCRN came about, to those volunteers it was their railway, and if another railway wanted to take them over, remove all their competencies and start doing things differently, they were going to oppose it.
    Fortunately in the intervening years relationships have improved, which has resulted in the loan from Loughborough of locos which, around something like 2011, would never have been done because of the ill feeling (although I do believe there was some bitterness among Loughborough volunteers when Tornado came to Ruddington for running in and a brief visit in early 2018). But there are still those scars, so, rightly or wrongly, there will still be some nervousness if it is seen that Loughborough is trying too hard to impose itself or take over Ruddington.
    Some at Ruddington think even once the gap is joined the two railways will run separately. I can't comment on why they think this, but they do. But the fact remains that if the two railways join and run as one, it will probably look to the casual observer from the outside more like Loughborough taking over Ruddington than the other way round (at least partly because Loughborough's operation is so much greater). Even if that is the case, there are ways of providing that kind of merger which will go down will with the North end, and those which won't, and because of past scars, there will always be those wary of it going badly for their organisation.
     
    Hando, Sunnieboy, pmh_74 and 4 others like this.
  5. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks for that insight RSH. As you correctly say "...there are ways of providing that kind of merger which will go down well with the North end, and those which won't" We all hope and expect that it will be the former, because we want to carry on working together to make it the GREAT Central Railway.
    It is always one of the hardest jobs for Heritage Railway management to integrate the large percentage of volunteers into the professional, ORR regulated, H & S conforming, clean and welcoming, heritage environment. Most of the time, most of the larger railways get this right......and we can all enjoy the results.
     
  6. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,806
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Occupation:
    Ex a lot of things.
    Location:
    Near where the 3 Ridings meet
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    TLDR

    Translation please.
     
  7. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,940
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    SpudUk and jnc like this.
  8. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Loughton Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    35B likes this.
  9. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thank you for your detailed explanation. It seems as if the vision was lost for a while and the difference was exploited by a few individuals for their own ends. It is good to see that this division is starting to fade. As Phil says "we want to carry on working together to make it the GREAT Central Railway". I hope this message can get through to those who think in terms of "take-over" rather than "amalgamation".
    PS : I'm not sure why you opened your reply with "TLDR" which appeared to imply that my post was too long to read, which, since you are replying to it, is clearly not the case. :)
     
    ruddingtonrsh56 likes this.
  10. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think the TLDR was affixed to his post, to tag its executive summary.

    Noel
     
  11. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If I had a pound for every meeting I've been to where the parties are both convinced they are entirely agreement and then give wildly different pictures of what was agreed, then.... well, I'd have my current income, so the idea of something as nebulous as a vision diverging over time is almost more likely that not.
     
    jnc likes this.
  12. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    3,186
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I rather assumed that, thus my smiley. But I've not seen that acronym used to refer to the writer's own work before, it is usually a put-down against another poster.
     
    jnc likes this.
  13. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That's the way I'd read it. It's the Modern Way of communicating (they tell me)
     
  14. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I should also have added that there is the "Friends of the Great Central Main Line"....which is described as "The membership group for the "Greater" Great Central Railway" so yet more linkage to that shared vision.
    At the end of the GCR AGM, we had the "Friends" AGM and it was good to be told that they had made a donation towards the Hotchley Hill signal box project. We also had a statement from Dr David Rae (committee member), who is also Chairman of the EMRT.
     
  15. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The TLDR is a prefix to my essay - ie a heading for if you can't be bothered to read everything I've read!
     
    goldfish and flying scotsman123 like this.
  16. Drop_Shunt

    Drop_Shunt New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    74
    Nottingham Heritage Railway Board Statement.

    The Board of the NHR (formerly GCRN) has issued its rejection of a proposal from the EMRT to force the surrender running rights on the southern section of the line from a point just north of Rushcliffe Halt to the mainline connection.

    The proposal was accompanied by an ultimatum demanding that the document be signed by 1700 on Friday 30th July.

    The Board found both the contents of the Surrender Document, and the deadline, unacceptable.

    A copy of the document has been mailed to shareholders along with this letter, and is also available to shareholders by email on request to directors@gcrn.co.uk

    The Board’s reasoning is as follows….

    The new Board:

    The new Board has already undertaken major reforms to address corporate governance and operational issues, and has created a lot of positive momentum among the volunteer base and in the community.

    We are excited about community projects such as the school competition to design a new NHR logo, being judged by Ruth Edwards MP, which is a perfect complement to our core mission of safe and enjoyable heritage railway operation. Our outreach into the community is only just beginning.

    The Board is very confident that this cultural change and specific initiatives to be outlined in its Medium-term Business Plan (MTBP), being drafted in conjunction with a panel of experts from both within and outside the rail industry, will lead to the NHR being a major source of pride for the local Rushcliffe and Nottingham community, and a by-word for best practice in heritage railway operation.

    The new Board has made significant changes and needs time to bring these to fruition.

    The contents of the Surrender Document:

    The Surrender Document in its current form effectively turns the NHR into a non-viable operation, creating a ‘rump state’ that would be unlikely to generate volunteer and customer enthusiasm, and likely close.

    The general history of ‘rump states’ is that once territory has been surrendered, there are usually more demands made for concessions in the future, until demise is complete.

    As a minimum, the NHR needs guaranteed operating rights to Rushcliffe Halt. It is preposterous that Rushcliffe’s local railway would be unable to run to a station that bears the name of its local area and parliamentary constituency.

    It would also fail to allow joint operations with the ‘bus preservation organization NABS, whom the NHR shares a site with, and with whom the NHR has highly cordial relations.

    The Board also notes that despite friendly relations between the two counties, Nottinghamshire people, and their political representatives nationally and locally, want a Nottingham-based independent railway. The concept of the NHR’s line being handed over to Leicestershire’s GCR plc to a point north of Rushcliffe Halt is markedly inconsistent with this.

    The Board wishes for the record to state it wholeheartedly shares the aim of running through services over the whole of the GCR Mainline, in association with our good friends from the South, while having a different vision of how this would look to the EMRT.

    Financial alternatives:

    The Board is mindful of the fact that expensive remediation work on the line is needed.

    To that end, it is working to secure alternative sources of capital that will guarantee the future of the line, permit the re-opening of freight traffic and maintain an independent Nottinghamshire railway.

    These discussions are well advanced, with formal proposals being put together with realistic numbers, and interested investors being briefed. No more detail can be given at this point due to their confidential nature.

    A question of tone:

    The Board has a lot of respect for the EMRT, both personally and institutionally.

    However, at a time when the UK is experiencing its biggest crisis since the War, spanning physical and mental health, employment, family life and much more, is the tone of manufactured crisis and anxious urgency coming from the EMRT that is being used to bully the NHR into its most important decision since its formation, really appropriate?

    There is enough anxiety around without creating crises. This situation needs calm deliberation and thoughtfulness.

    The EMRT has intimated during negotiations that it will consider pushing the NHR into bankruptcy if the line is not surrendered. It may also be the case that it could seek to remove the NHR (which of course is the organization that it was created to support) from its property.

    The EMRT is entitled to take whatever course it feels fit, but the consequences of such action would be to deprive Nottingham of its local heritage railway, cost jobs, and be a serious blow to the community.

    This action would also be rather untimely given that the new NHR Board has undertaken significant reform, and is very confident that it can be the guardian of the railway that the people deserve.

    The Way Forward:

    The Board, as noted above, will be reverting with a series of alternative policy options and we seek your support in the near-term while these are finalized.

    Already underway is an independent review by a group of industry experts, without any vested interests, into the bridges that have issues. These structures have become the casus belli for the EMRT, and it is essential that such a review be undertaken to ensure that the NHR Board is confident in its ability to make fact-based judicious decisions, based on its findings.

    Michael Newton, Ronald Whalley, Peter Wilson & John Akinin - Chairman & Directors of The Nottingham Heritage Railway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  17. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There is a lot to digest in this statement!
    Without seeing "the other side" (EMRT) document or knowing the detail of why it had been issued, we on here, are unable to form a balanced view from the sidelines. Obviously there is a breakdown in the relationship between the two parties - which is always damaging to all concerned. Positively, all parties are still supporting the Gap project...

    "The Board wishes for the record to state it wholeheartedly shares the aim of running through services over the whole of the GCR Mainline, in association with our good friends from the South, while having a different vision of how this would look to the EMRT."

    I am slightly puzzled though, as it now appears that Peter Wilson is a director again and Ronald Whalley is a new appointment?

    This does seem to centre on the two bridges that have stopped the Gypsum trains and I would have thought that the problem is not merely a "tone of manufactured crisis and anxious urgency".
    As ever, I'm sure many people are working very hard to resolve the issues.
     
    jnc likes this.
  18. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,588
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The 4 names to that document are the four active Directors of the Company as listed on the Companies House records.
    I couldn't see the point of that statement being posted in this thread, TBH, as it had already been posted in the "North" thread, as a copy and paste (as for the version on here) without any indication as to its source.....
     
  19. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,500
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hi Johann I didn't see that Mr Whalley (Appointed in 2013) had survived the May board changes! But this was from a last week's NHR statement
    "And Finally....
    Peter Morley has resigned from the Board. We thank Peter for his service and the Board notes his genuine commitment to transport preservation. He is a great guy and we wish him well in his future endeavors."
    and it is listed in the Company House record from 26 July.
    But yes this discussion should be in the GCR(N)/NHR thread.
     
  20. Great Western

    Great Western Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    174
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What was I saying not so long ago?

    Anyone else see the white knight riding in to save the day, subject to certain access agreements being put in place.........
     

Share This Page